Halftracks (M3, Sdkfz.251, and others) Questions and What-if Ideas?

[dy031101]

Recently I've become somewhat interested in light tanks/fire support vehicles/tank destroyers......

...... and this one left quite an impression, being the only halftrack-based concept I've seen so far that allows its main gun for 360-degree traverse:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/votw/75mmsel.htm

Is the turret shrapnel-protected from above, or is it open-topped?



I've been under the impression that the existing halftrack-based SP guns (like those German and Israeli examples) were open-topped and with guns of limited traverse for simplicity and probably avoided excessively-high profile...... but I couldn't help to think that a turreted halftrack SP gun would have looked very cool.  Like a M3 with armoured roof welded over the cab and the passenger compartment, and either an ATGM launcher turret or a Cockerill 90mm gun in a low-profile turret...... would you think that the Cockerill Mk.8 can work?  Or would I be stuck with the less powerful Mk.3?

[Sauragnmon]

The turret, in the second pic, appears to have a hatch on it.

Halftracked infantry support vehicles would be pretty handy in some ways, and I always thought halftracks just look cool to begin with.

The Germans had a few halftrack SPAAG's built off the 251 I believe it was, not serial production, but just conversions done by one of the Mechanized regiments, I think it was Grossdeutschland.  Drop-flat sides and a Flakvierling on the back section for AA support.  Looked pretty damn cool.

[Jschmus]

Nah, it's open-topped.  The "hatch" you can see in the second pic is the gun-shield.

[dy031101]

Thank you, guys, for participation. 

After thinking about it, I agree with Jschmus' observation.

Halftracked infantry support vehicles would be pretty handy in some ways, and I always thought halftracks just look cool to begin with.

Someone told me before that halftracks are more straight forward to build (for those used to build trucks since steering is still handled by regular wheels on the front) and operate (for those used to drive wheeled trucks as it handles like a wheeled truck), and yes, I agree with you that halftracks look cool.

For those who like the look of modern wheeled AFVs, scroll down all the way on this page to the last entry: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/UnitedStates/armored-halftracks/armored-halftracks.html

Speaking of which, does anyone have more pictures of this "Halftrack Prototype 1943"?  The angle at which the picture in the weblink was taken gives me an impression of a vehicle too thin......

================================================================

When I saw the ZFB08 APC (see the picture below) for the first time, I actually felt that it wouldn't have looked out of place, either, if made into a halftrack (by replacing the four rear wheels with caterpillar tracks)...... perhaps I think so because the vehicle is actually designed and built by a company whose previous experience is building armoured trucks for banks and civilian security companies.

[Sauragnmon]

Yeah ok, I agree, it is the gun shield, it just looked like a hatch at that angle.

They are, in ways, easier, or better than full wheeled designs, but they still have that horrid problem that come with tracked units - all those pins that can break, or other failures that come with tracks.  Excellent traction though, they're very good off road, but without proper fitting can tear up roadways, namely if you don't have proper shoes on the tracks.

I have to agree with the ZFB, the way it's got that gap after the front axle would suggest it would look pretty damn good as a halftrack.  It'd probably also have lower ground pressure overall, as another thought.

[philp]

Lebanon has used some interesting half track conversions.


And the US used turreted versions.  Besides the M14 with 2 .50s and M16 with Quad Fiftys, there was the M15 with 2 .50s and a 37mm.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

How about a kit bash between a Studebaker or GMC 2.5t truck and an M2/M3 half-track?  Creating a hybrid half-track cargo truck for rough terrain and operations in snow?

[dy031101]

Lebanon has used some interesting half track conversions.

I also thought along a similar line, too, in addition to the turreted SPG.  An ACAV halftrack...... except that I'm more in favour of a rear top hatch than hull firing ports (maybe even add a gun shield on either side of the hatch for mounting general-purpose or squad machineguns).

How high is the floor of the M2/M3 Halftracks' passenger compartment?  After browsing the link below:

http://www.aefdesigns.com/Israile_Images/Israeli_Armor.htm

Is it just me, or is the roof mounted kind of high?  Is height just to make room for the vision block or is it really necessary to allow adequate head room for the troops inside?

And the US used turreted versions. 

Would such a mount for 105mm howitzer (in an arrangement like those SPHs built on MBT hulls) be possible?  Hum...... turret bustle might be tricky to imagine......

[dy031101]

How about a kit bash between a Studebaker or GMC 2.5t truck and an M2/M3 half-track?  Creating a hybrid half-track cargo truck for rough terrain and operations in snow?

A halftrack-based BM-13 Katyusha?  Command vehicle?  Ambulance?

Although the timeframe and the basis type don't quite match...... a halftrack guntruck?

[jcf]

How about a kit bash between a Studebaker or GMC 2.5t truck and an M2/M3 half-track?  Creating a hybrid half-track cargo truck for rough terrain and operations in snow?

Which was the original concept of the half-track as developed by Citroen-Kegresse in the 1920s, the US Army used a few.


J. Walter Christie also developed half-track conversions of Mack trucks.


There was a great deal of experimentation with half-tracks in the US between the wars:
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/UnitedStates/unarmored-halftracks/unarmored-half-tracks.html

Autocar produced a truck version, the T17, on the basic M2/M3 platform during WWII, one of only two types to go into production:

Refueling tanker version.

The Ford-Marmon-Herrington T9E1was the other:



Jon

[frank2056]

So why did the halftrack vanish? Now all we have are multi-wheeled vehicles or tracked vehicles.

[jcf]

So why did the halftrack vanish? Now all we have are multi-wheeled vehicles or tracked vehicles.

The disadvantages of both wheeled or tracked vehicles and the advantages of neither. 

Jon

[jcf]

We may see more wheel-track combinations in the future but in the form of skid-steered band tracks over all of the wheels (think Christie tank with pneumatic tires).

The third is a wheeltrack combo. This has removable, wheel-driven tracks with an unpowered idler forward (the idea being that this would help to fill in the AVGP's infamous 'gap').

The Christie Light Tank Model 1932 actually had pneumatic tires.

Re-arrange the idler position on your third mockup and you'd have one of the Christie-Mack conversions. 


Jon

[General Zod]

I think White truck corporation built some cargo half tracks for the Soviets during W W 2

[dy031101]

If anyone is into a bit of scratch-building, there is the Chilean BMS-1 Alacrán half-track.

Nice. 

There were plans for other variants and a 90mm Cockerill would not look out of place.

This one looks ready for the Cockerill Mk.8...... or maybe even the 105mm-gun-armed CT-CV turret.