Halftracks (M3, Sdkfz.251, and others) Questions and What-if Ideas?

[rallymodeller]

The third is a wheeltrack combo. This has removable, wheel-driven tracks with an unpowered idler forward (the idea being that this would help to fill in the AVGP's infamous 'gap').

You know, with Trumpeter coming out with AVGPs (Grizzly and Husky ARV) that third one might be doable. I believe there are a couple of companies that do band-tracks -- Accurate Armour does a set IIRC.

[jcf]

I think White truck corporation built some cargo half tracks for the Soviets during W W 2

That is the T17 mentioned earlier, built by Autocar on the White chassis.
Autocar was the second largest manufacturer of the M2 series.

Jon

[dy031101]

Attached: a first stab at a big gun Alacrán. Cockerill Mk3M-A1 since Alacrán translates as 'Scorpion' ... 

This definitely gets imaginations flying- awesome! 

What's the dimentions of the Alacrán?  Other than the Cockerill guns...... maybe the turret of AMX-10RC...... (probably because my fascinations to look-alikes; in this case, something like AMX-10RC to go with AMX-30, after I read on Wikipedia that Chile was once interested in AMX-30 MBTs.)

[ChernayaAkula]

I intend to build a Dingo half-track. I've got two kits because I wanted to build a 6x6 Dingo. But then I thought, what to do with half a Dingo?  What to do with half a truck?  Now I'm wondering what to use for the tracks. I thought about using one of Trumpeter's M113s.

[dy031101]

The Alacrán is fairly long. Width would be the main limitation to turret choice I would think.

BMS-1 Alacrán dimensions: length 6.37 m; height 2.03 m; 2.38 m width; wheelbase 2.175 m ago

The AMX-10RC is 2.78 metres wide.

I suspect for a bit, however, that the around-40-centimetre difference is dominated by the wheels and fenders of AMX-10RC......

The turret (not the turret ring) seems to be almost as wide as the Alacrán hull though...... if it were wider, I would have had difficulty thinking of the combo as asthetically-pleasing......

Anyway, here's a small mental note...... I was hoping to be able to mount the turret at the mid-length...... oh well.

[jcf]

How about going the other way? M3 half-track into 6 X 6.



From here:
http://www.warwheels.net/ACJ19.html

Jon

[dy031101]

How about going the other way? M3 half-track into 6 X 6.

I was hoping to delay the halftrack-to-wheel discussion as much as possible. 

Anyway, IIRC, some Latin American countries (for example, IIRC again, Columbia) exercised that option (albeit not exactly going 6 x 6) after running low on parts.

Which kinda brings everything in a full circle (which started from the wheeled M3 scout car)......

[rallymodeller]

I like that idea! It might be easier, though, to drop the M3-style rubber-band tracks under a Greyhound. After all, they're designed to be used by basically trucks (no differential steering), and the tracks required less maintenance. The M24 tracks, cool as they look, might be overkill.

Look at the Opel Maultier:

Those are some pretty lightweight tracks for an armoured vehicle.

Somewhere I have a pic of a test M24 with the interleaved roadwheel setup from an SdKfz-250 (IIRC). I'll see if I can find it.

<EDIT> Found it. It was in Armor In Profile N° 6: M-24 Chaffee:


Now there's a conversion project to make the JMNs scratch their heads...

[rallymodeller]

On another tack, how about the "Gun Motor Carriage, 40mm, Mack T1"?


Uses the complete suspension from an M3 light tank, mounts a 40mm Bofors gun; the gun director has it's own engine (a Coventry Climax unit), and a rear-mounted Mack engine.

[dy031101]

I wonder if the howitzer motor carriage version of the M3 Halftracks can be up-gunned with...... D-30 howitzer (inspired by one of Maverick's artworks showing a Stug III regunned with the D-30)?

I heard that the Maultiers use suspention and track assemblies salvaged from Panzer I.

On the AMX-10RC turret for the Alacrán, maybe move the turret basket forward?

The AVGP Cougar didn't have an in-hull commander's hatch. So, relocated the Alacrán's veh cdr up into the turret and you have more hull space. Need extra space? The Cougar just extended the hull out on the port side around the basket.

Nice stuff! 

Below pictures are said to show the interior of the Alacrán.

Hum...... I wonder how big of a space the engine occupies.

[dy031101]

Upgrading the M16 MGMC and Sdkfz 251/17 with the turret and the powerpack section of M167 VADS? 

After the WWII, Czech modified the Sd.Kfz.251 design to produce OT-810 halftracks.

Sounds like the vehicle was made more powerful and afforded overhead protection compared to the Sd.Kfz.251, but Wikipedia claims that this vehicle is not liked by its users.  Does anyone know why?

[jcf]

I heard that the Maultiers use suspention and track assemblies salvaged from Panzer I.

The Maultiers used a Carden-Lloyd suspension similar to that on the Universal carrier.

Jon

[dy031101]

Back to earlier vehicles......

How does a turreted 90mm gun sound for the likes of modified M3/M5 and/or OT-810?

[dy031101]

After seeing Maverick's M3 Halftrack with D-30 howitzer, I wonder what would it have looked like if given an enclosed superstructure like the Israeli L-33 SPH.

Another plain vanilla M3 halftrack would be needed to carry ammunitions- the T19 HMC, armed with a 105mm howitzer, carries only 8 rounds onboard.

How would the vehicle be affected in practice by this configuration though (since enclosed fighting compartments invariably add weight compared to open-topped vehicles)?

[Logan Hartke]

The 105mm howitzer was too much recoil for the vehicle.  The T19 was not a wonderful setup and was very much a stopgap.  This could be done, but there are a couple configurations that may be more practical.  I think that you need to stick with the pedestal mount setup that is natural to the D-30, but go with an unarmored mount due to weight and gun operation.  The recoil would still be too much for the chassis but that's solved with some simple outriggers or recoil spades at the rear of the vehicle.

I do not think you could honestly go with an armored D-30 122mm mount on an M3 series halftrack in real life and hope to operate it.

I'd go with a chassis like the T28 CGMC AA halftrack, a D-30 mount like the Syrians used on the T-34s they modified, fold-down shields like the Grille 10, and outriggers and fold-down working platform similar to the Italian Autocannone da 90/53 su Lancia 3/RO.

So, for reasons of practicality...

This chassis:


This gun mount:

Close up of Syrian T-34 mount
Modernized Chinese D30 mount

This fold-down working platform/fold-up shields setup:


Maybe this style of outriggers/stabilizers?

More pics of the Italian Autocannone da 90/53 su Lancia 3/RO

Logan Hartke