Halftracks (M3, Sdkfz.251, and others) Questions and What-if Ideas?

[jcf]

Were there ever any British halftracks?

If not maybe create one using something like a Bren Carrier as a starting point?

Regards,

Greg

Ya mean like the German's did with the Maultier and its Vickers/Carden-Loyd/Horstmann type suspension?

Jon

[Weaver]

Apart from the Matador prototype, the only one I know about is the Centaur, a halftrack conversion of a Landrover.  It was developed in the early eighties by a company called Laird, never went further than several prototypes.  The tracks are shortened version from the Alvis Scorpion, so it's quite possible to convert a Land Rover in both 1/72 & 1/35.  Finding the Land Rover 110 Defender might be a problem, but you can always bash an earlier version.
http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/centaur.htm

There have been some versions of the Landie with tracks in place of the wheels too:
http://www.lr-mad.co.uk/tracked.html

I've got both the Airfix (ex JB) Landy hardtop and several Scorpions so I've just tried this and it works a treat! The Scorpion is the perfect width to match the Landy so it should be easy. What's more, the Landy body is almost exactly the same length as the Scorpion, so you could "just" drop the one onto the other to make a fully-tracked Landrover....

Lastly, it also strikes me that you could use the front part of the Landy body instead of the Bedford's cab to give it a long-bonnet style, maybe with all four of the Bedford's original wheels up front and tracks at the back.

[raafif]

hey guys,
        from England there was the Traclat, a 1943 copy of the German SdKfz7 (6 prototypes built).  The Bedford QL with Carden-Lloyd / Bren track sets. The Maclat(?) which was the Matador with Valentine tank components for the suspension & track.

Australia also built 3 prototypes on Ford, Chev & CMP Chev Blitz chassis using Aussie Bren Carrier parts.

I have done an article that covers the history of ½traks from 1900 to 2000.
Yes they are still being designed & built (an amphibious one in Iran)-- you just have to consider the definition (includes sno-mobiles, snow-dragsters & even a modern track/ski-equipped ambulance & half-tracked motorcycles.

cheers

[dy031101]

Thank you so much. 

The reference to the AVGP is just the thing...... because my request was because of a thread that imagined Canadian securing Czechslovakia before the end of WWII and benefitting from the local defense industry.

[Weaver]

dy031101 asked for a Scorpion-turreted Sd.kfz.251 and here it is...

At 2.0 m, the halftrack is narrower than the Scorpion  (2.235 m) or the AVGP Cougar  (2.50 m) but with flaired hull side panels, the turret might just fit.

Nice one Apo - it looks a bit top-heavy, but then the Scorpion turret is aluminium not steel, so it's probably lighter than it looks and you might get away with it. 

[famvburg]

        Lest we forget the Kettenkraftrad? It IS a halftrack/motorcycle after all.

Recently I've become somewhat interested in light tanks/fire support vehicles/tank destroyers......

...... and this one left quite an impression, being the only halftrack-based concept I've seen so far that allows its main gun for 360-degree traverse:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/votw/75mmsel.htm

Is the turret shrapnel-protected from above, or is it open-topped?



I've been under the impression that the existing halftrack-based SP guns (like those German and Israeli examples) were open-topped and with guns of limited traverse for simplicity and probably avoided excessively-high profile...... but I couldn't help to think that a turreted halftrack SP gun would have looked very cool.  Like a M3 with armoured roof welded over the cab and the passenger compartment, and either an ATGM launcher turret or a Cockerill 90mm gun in a low-profile turret...... would you think that the Cockerill Mk.8 can work?  Or would I be stuck with the less powerful Mk.3?

[dy031101]

Nice one Apo - it looks a bit top-heavy, but then the Scorpion turret is aluminium not steel, so it's probably lighter than it looks and you might get away with it. 

Now that got me thinking...... would the above statement stand if the 76mm gun was replaced with the Cockerill Mk.3 90mm? 

        Lest we forget the Kettenkraftrad? It IS a halftrack/motorcycle after all.

If it lasted long enough...... the same TOW launcher as used on M151 MUTT?

[dy031101]

Still, you have to wonder how this sucker would rock 'n' roll when the pumpkin launcher was actually fired (let alone a 90mm!).

The Cockerill Mk.3 is a low-pressure weapon with a muzzle brake......

Still don't know how heavy the recoil will be though.

[andrewj]

The British Bedford Traclat, { Tracked Light Artillery Tractor} makes a great What-if, six were built towards the end of the war based on german designs, but engineered to british production methods. Due to the lack of a suitably powerful engine ,two Bedford six cylinder engines mounted side by side drove the beast via a common gearbox.

[NARSES2]

That Bedford is interesting, I knew nothing about it. Thanks 

[dy031101]

The M3 depicted in this picture is allegedly equipped with a Crotale missile launcher (used as a TV show prop)......

Looks like an 8-round launcher...... would a version with the ADATS turret be possible, too?

[dy031101]

It came to me when I browsed the pictures of the Selbstfahrlafette minutes ago......

Would the M18 turret be able to fit onto the passenger compartment of the M3 Halftrack?  I mean, give the halftrack cab and passenger bay roofs first (not necessarily the raised style used by the Lebanonese vehicles though)?

[GTX]

That Bedford is interesting, I knew nothing about it. Thanks 

Ditto - thanks for posting.

Regards,

Greg

[Jeffry Fontaine]

There may be something of interest to this discussion on the antiaircraft.org site.  The focus of which is U.S. Army AAA during WWII.  Many of the images provided I have never seen before.  

[Mossie]

I've come some British interwar halftracks by accident.  These used bogies designed by Frenchman Adolphe Kegresse.  Aparentley, the suspension wasn't that great & the Brits went over to six wheel trucks, but it inspired the Americans to build the Cunnigham T1 with redesigned suspension, which eventually led to the M3 series.


Kegresse halftrack


Crossley halftrack


Burford halftrack


Crossley Martel tankette


Morris Martel tankette

Sources:
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/GreatBritain/British-OtherVehicles.html
http://www.d-daytanks.org.uk/articles/half-track.html
http://ww2armor.jexiste.fr/Files/Allies/Allies/1-Vehicles/UK/9-Halftracks/Halftracks.htm#Burford
http://ww2armor.jexiste.fr/Files/Allies/Allies/1-Vehicles/UK/9-Halftracks/Halftracks.htm#CrossleyBGV


Came across this page with hole host of US interwar halftracks:
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/UnitedStates/unarmored-halftracks/unarmored-half-tracks.html