Halftracks (M3, Sdkfz.251, and others) Questions and What-if Ideas?

[dy031101]

Found while researching my articles on Halftracks 1900 to 2000 ...

Ah the shape...... is it in any way related to the VW camper?

[Jschmus]

Found while researching my articles on Halftracks 1900 to 2000 ...

Ah the shape...... is it in any way related to the VW camper?

It is a VW camper:

http://www.crumplezone.de/halftrack-01.htm

[dy031101]

Nice one Apo - it looks a bit top-heavy, but then the Scorpion turret is aluminium not steel, so it's probably lighter than it looks and you might get away with it.  

Weav is right about the top-heaviness. I dumped the usual stowage racks to less the rear overhang. Still, you have to wonder how this sucker would rock 'n' roll when the pumpkin launcher was actually fired (let alone a 90mm!).

Speaking of turret weight...... how heavy is it compared to those of the M24 Chaffee (uses the same ammo as the 75mm gun Shermans), M8 HMC (ditto for an experimental 75mm tank gun model), and AMX-13 (presumably with better anti-tank capability)?

[Mossie]

Spotted this Halftrack Lada tank originally on English Russia in B&W then found this colour version.  I've no idea what it's all about, I suspect someones just having a laugh???

http://www.tuningfever.fr/fr/pics/cat-325-lada/pic-44228-lada-tank.php

[dy031101]

I watched "Greatest Tank Battles" last night on the US forces that resisted Kampfgruppe Peiper during the latter's 1944~1945 Ardennes Offensive and was inspired to think of tank destroyers once more by scenes of towed gun battalions duelling Jagdpanzer IVs......

Let's suppose the delivery of newer, turreted tank destroyers to the US forces wasn't fast enough such that there was a tank destroyer battalion still soldiering on with their M3 GMCs well into 1944.  Nevertheless, that battalion at least recongnized the M3 GMC's old 75mm field gun as obsolete and, since the Sicilian Campaign, sought to do something about that fact...... as it turned out, ending up having field-modified the halftracks just in time for the Battle of the Bulge......

Would it have been easier to use towed guns as a source for the replacement ordnance?  Or would tank guns (as in used by the turreted TDs) actually not be that much more difficult to adopt?

[rickshaw]

What you're looking at is at its most basic something like the GMC T19:



What you might prefer is something like the Panzer-Selbstfahrlafette II — 7.5 cm Kanone L/41 auf Zugkraftwagen 5t (HKP 902) (which I can't presently find an image of) of which two prototypes were built and sent to North Africa as a Cavalry/Reconniassance vehicle.  It was an open-topped turret with a special 75mm gun mounted on top of a modified 5 ton half-track with a rear-engine.

Wait!  Here is a poor picture of a knocked out one!



However it would take extensive modifications to produce something like that from an M3 Half-Track.

[dy031101]

What I'm looking for would probably be just to stick with a straight gun swap as much as possible.

At first I am indeed thinking of using modification of the 3-inch gun M5 (a towed piece)...... unless messing around with older 90mm AA guns is within the boundary of "field-modification"  

The 76mm gun M1 is said to be lighter than any derivative of the 3-inch gun...... and come to think of it, although it's a tank ordnance, I believe Israel did adopt the French 90mm (which I don't recall having previously a towed configuration) for the 6-pounder mount onboard their halftracks, so technically-speaking putting a tank gun onto a tank destroyer or towed gun mount might be do-able as well.

I did not realize that Selbstfahrlafette II was actually tested in combat...... looks a bit more different from the prototype pictures I found here.

[MAD]

How about a half track variant of something like the Caesar 155mm Self-Propelled Artillery System:



Regards,

Greg

I like it Greg!!!

Even if the GS Engineering 'bandtrack' was applied (as per Apophenia previous post!) would go a long way in lowering the vehicles ground pressure and improve cross country performance! It would not have to be warn all the time - but as an option dictated by terrain and weather.
It would also minimise $$$$$ and weight - as opposed to the actual traditional halftrack configuration, which will still allow for it to be air-transportable by C-130 Herks.
I am very disappointed with the Australian Army`s neglect of such a cost and operational effective SPH

P.S. would be very appreciative if someone could photoshop such an arrangement


M.A.D  

[MAD]

What about a AMX-10RC with the GS Engineering 'bandtrack' incorporated into its 6x6 configuration??

M.A.D

[rickshaw]

I am very disappointed with the Australian Army`s neglect of such a cost and operational effective SPH

The Australian Army has looked at it.  However, what they want are fully-tracked, preferrably turreted, SPGs.  They aren't going to get them in all likelihood though - considering they can't even afford sufficient M1 Abrahm MBTs to equip a complete armoured regiment and its supporting training units, they are dreaming if they think they can have such beasts.

More realistically, Thales offered for some time the Archer 155mm SPG - a Swedish design based on a Volvo articulated construction truck.   I remember visiting their Adelaide plant back in about 2004 in connection with a different matter and being rather surprised to see one of these beasts parked out the back.

[Mossie]

Hmm, when HobbyBoss release their forthcoming Dana howitzer, hopefully a Zuzana will follow it, that might look nice in Aussie camouflage!  A half track version of the Dana & Zuzana would make for a good whiff too.

[dy031101]

In ETO the Americans used some captured Sd.Kfz. 251 halftracks to mount Calliope launchers.

Makes me think of stand-ins for M3 GMC or other tank destroyers by mounting 3 inch guns onto captured tractor/APC halftracks (or Czech exports)......  

[NARSES2]

Oh that is interesting. You seldom see (or I don't anyway) photos of captured Axis equipment in use by the Allies. The most "famous" one I know of is Cuckoo the captured Panther in use by the Brits in Normandy.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/britain/Cuckoo2.html

[rickshaw]

Oh that is interesting. You seldom see (or I don't anyway) photos of captured Axis equipment in use by the Allies. The most "famous" one I know of is Cuckoo the captured Panther in use by the Brits in Normandy.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/britain/Cuckoo2.html

The Soviets had whole armoured regiments equipped with captured equipment, particularly Panthers.  They didn't advertise it but they found them very useful.  Along with the large numbers of Lend-Lease Shermans, the real picture of Soviet equipment is rather different compared to how they tried to portray it in history.

[dy031101]

More info here.

It appears to me that the elevation is done via components of a Pak 40 (as the Calliope launcher normally elevates with the carrier Sherman's main gun), and that the halftracks employed were actually salvaged wrecks...

... but given the example shown by the Cuckoo Panthers, I suppose my idea of emergency TDs made out of captured halftracks would still not have been out of question......