Panzer IV

[rickshaw]

I'm not qualified to get involved with the technical issues raised in this thread but my reading of WWII would support Rickshaws statements about Montgomery's impact in particular.Prior to him arriving the 8th Army has always given me the impression of behaving a bit like the "old" Indian Army and going its own way.

Not surprising really.  Both were at a considerable distance from home and many of the senior officers in the original formations of the 8th Army were in fact from India.   The longer they stayed with 8th Army, the more they became part of it and reflected its institutional views, hence the "new broom" that Montgomery constituted.   However, it should be noted, even as late as mid-1944, 7 Armoured Division had a large number of its senior officers and formation commanders replaced, both on the eve of Normandy and during it, simply because they proved unable to cope with the changes that NW European fighting entailed.   Oh, and because they and their men had become "canny" and weren't as willing to risk their lives as were troops who had not been fighting the Nazis since 1940.

[NARSES2]

However, it should be noted, even as late as mid-1944, 7 Armoured Division had a large number of its senior officers and formation commanders replaced, both on the eve of Normandy and during it, simply because they proved unable to cope with the changes that NW European fighting entailed.   Oh, and because they and their men had become "canny" and weren't as willing to risk their lives as were troops who had not been fighting the Nazis since 1940.

Yes I was suprised on reading how many quite senior commanders couldn't hack it, worn out to some extent and as you say unable to deal with the changes in the style and warfare.

As for the ordinary soldiers becoming "canny" as you put it you can't really blame them, I don't anyhow. It's quite interesting reading about how different formations behaved in Normandy. As you say those who had been in action for 4 years or so  were intent on doing what had to be done and thats about it. Those who were new to the sharp end behaved, at least initialy, with a little more enthusiasm. I've read one account of the DCLI (I think) going into action for the first time with bugles sounding. That disn't last. Given the "turnover" in the infantry in particular I'm just staggered that so many could do their duty and will always tip my hat to those who have seen the sharp end..just oh so glad I never had to myself.

Chris

[rickshaw]

Yes I was suprised on reading how many quite senior commanders couldn't hack it, worn out to some extent and as you say unable to deal with the changes in the style and warfare.

Combination of factors.  Some couldn't hack it.  Some were tired and worn-out, some too old, some too unwilling to sacrifice their men, each one was an individual case with different reasons.  Another factor which can't be ignored but which isn't really talked about is patronage.  Montgomery had his favourites and his dislikes.

As for the ordinary soldiers becoming "canny" as you put it you can't really blame them, I don't anyhow. It's quite interesting reading about how different formations behaved in Normandy. As you say those who had been in action for 4 years or so  were intent on doing what had to be done and thats about it. Those who were new to the sharp end behaved, at least initialy, with a little more enthusiasm. I've read one account of the DCLI (I think) going into action for the first time with bugles sounding. That disn't last. Given the "turnover" in the infantry in particular I'm just staggered that so many could do their duty and will always tip my hat to those who have seen the sharp end..just oh so glad I never had to myself.

Chris

I don't blame them, indeed if I was in a similar situation, I rather suspect I'd have been rather less than willing to be the one who'd have been the first over the top and I have been a soldier although never sent to war (I served in the 1980s when "Fortress Australia" was the strategy and so never went overseas).   There is an old saying which applies to pilots but also to soldiers, "there are bold soldiers and their are old soldiers.  There are no old, bold soldiers."  After having fought for the last 3-4 years in the desert, they may have been battle hardened and experienced but they could see they were winning the war.  They'd done their share (in their view), let some other bugger who'd sat on his arse in Blighty do a bit of the lifting for a change.  If anything, the extended leave granted to 7 Armoured Division upon their return to the UK from Italy simply exacerbated their "canniness".  However, they'd more than likely mutinied if they hadn't been granted it.

[scooter]

Question for the armo(u)r geeks.  For Elven Blend's Second World War portions, I was thinking of supplying the Londthyrian Confederacy Ground Forces licensed built Panzer IVs, without, of course, the Maybachs.  I just wonder if its possible to squeeze either a GM 6046 or Cat D-200 under the engine deck.

[rickshaw]

The GM 6046 more than likely, yes.  It was an inline engine, whereas the Cat D-200 was a radial one.  The Maybach's dimensions were 1000 × 1190 × 1310 mm, so anything that fits into that space, more or less would be ok.