RAR Leopard 2A6 WHIF

[barraxr8]

G'day guys !!

My registration finally came though for this site - 2.5 weeks later 

Anyway I'm the guy doing the Aussie "What if ?" Leopard 2A6 on Armorama.

I'll start a seperate thread on it here if you think that's a good idea.


ATM this is what I'll be using on this project:

• The Tamiya Leo 2A6,

• AFV Club tracks,

• Legends 2A6 (NL) conversion (for some of the parts I require, including the 2A4 side skirts),

• Lion Roar PE for the 2A6

• A Mouse House GPS Antenna, and other mounts for Com's.

• A Mouse House MAG 58 (with Platt Mount)

• The Mouse House MAD606 1st Armoured Decals.

• The Challenger Dozer Blade (Trumpeter kit) it looks the right width too - I need to test fit this sub assembly to see what I need to modify.

• I'm still waiting on a timing from Model Point on their Barrels - I have a Barrel Depot Barrel but may end up using the kit Barrel.

• Also waiting on a Storm Miniatures 2A6M conversion which is in the mail

Thoughts ?


Cheers

Paul

[PanzerWulff]

From 1 treadhead to another Welcome to the forum I took a gander at the pics on your Armorama thread,I love the cammo on the aussie Leo and cant wait to see your treatment on the Leo-2A6.
"Panzer"

[barraxr8]

G'day "Panzer" ! Thanks for the welcome 

Isn't that Leo 2 an awesome machine ?

I'm building a Leo 2A5 ATM (Kosovo 1999). The Aussie machine will follow after that. I can't wait to do that one either.

In fact I've already done the lower hull for this "What if ?" project - those Tamiya Leo 2 kits are sooo easy to put together. 

The 2A6 is the best Tank available ATM and the sillouette with that L55 gun is just    Lol !!

Any thoughts on other additions to the machine ?

Paul

[Maverick]

Welcome aboard Paul,

A fellow Aussie & ex-treadhead here.  I saw your stuff on Armorama & thought mmmm yes indeed.

I've done a couple of Leo 2 whifs profile-wise and also a model with the AFV Club RWS mounted.

Regards,

Mav

[barraxr8]

One more post:

Here's the logic behind my build (just a copy of the post I made at Armorama):

"Hi Guys !

I've been doing a bit of research into the actual sourcing of the new Fleet of MTB's as part of the Land 907 project.

Here are some details and info to consider in specifying a MBT for the ADF as documented in the actual Auditor General's report 2007 -2008 on the current acquisition:

1. The prefered tank must be a production model with known operating and maintenance costs.

2. Interoperability is an important requirement for these tanks ie:

Ability to operate with an international coalition for tasks that support the wider interests, including the ability to operate with current and future US forces.

Ability to remain capable of operating within and potentially leading coalitions involving neighbours and regional partners

The core business of the Australian Army is to conduct close combat against an enemy using combined arms teams. A combined arms team is made up of infantry, armour, artillery, engineers and army aviation. Within this formation the tank plays a central role providing protection, communication and firepower.

In the actual project 3 platforms types were considered:

Leopard 2 and Leopard 2 variants
Abrams variants
Challenger 2

The Abrams acquisition was recommended over the other options basically on the basis of it's proven survivability and cost. Government approval for the project to purchase the Abrams M1A1 AIM was given in March 2004.

In the end two contenders emerged as preferred options to replace the AS1 Leopards, The Abrams above, and the Swiss RUAG PANZER 87/WE.

Challenger 2 was discounted because it was far more expensive than any of the other options ( twice that of the Abrams).

Leopard 2A4, 2A5, and 2A6 were not considered as competitive in terms of operational capability as " these would have been supplied as aging and second hand tanks of lesser capability" (NB: the Auditor Generals report assesses that this decision was made in the absence of an approved functional performance specification, and was by its nature subjective.)

This 'What if ?' scenario assumes that the Leopard 2A6 was chosen as it was the best in terms of operational capability, and that it was cost competitive. However that should be kept in mind in "specing" the beast. Adding too much cost to the tank will make it unfeasible and unaffordable.

Common specifications must be used where possible and the tank must be able to fulfill the Australian Arrmy's core business of combined arms. This tank does not need to be a 'technological wonder' (eg: PSO) so some of the 'you beaut' stuff does not need to be included in the final specification of this tank. It needs to be a good honest machine that fullfils the needs of the RAAC.

Some of the modifications made to the Abrams were:

A mobile camouflage system

A cooling system similar to the Leopard Crew Climate Control System

Steyr mounts for Aussie small arms.

Heat reflecting insulations, umbrella & internal cool air vests

I'll also need to think about these.

Thoughts ?

BTW here is the link to the report above (good reading if you're interested in how these decisions are made):


http://www.anao.gov.au/uploads/documents/2007-08_Audit_Report_1.pdf

In the end the correct decision was probably made (based on requirements). But This is all about building an Aussie Leo 2A6

Cheers

Paul"

[barraxr8]

Hey there Mav !!

Yeah I've thought about the M1151 RWS, I have a the AFV Club one here, AND a Mouse House seal solutions mount also !

I'm leaning toward no RWS based on my little synopsis above. Maybe some time later 

What do you think ?

Cheers

Paul

Edit: Mouse House NOT MD (MH)

[barraxr8]

BTW Mav if you'd care to share your Leo "What if?" profiles, I'd love to see them 

Paul

[Maverick]

G'day Paul,

Here's the two ARA Leo 2s I did quite some time ago.  I haven't gotten around to uploading my armour stuff into my Gallery as yet.   There's another few Leos in amongst that lot from various operators.

I wasn't aware that our Leo 2 deal was to be second-hand.  I was under the impression they were to be new, whilst the Abrams have been 'refurbished'...

Regards,

Mav

[barraxr8]

They look great Mav 

Love your work 

That Camo does looks great on the Leo shape for sure, and the Mouse House decals will be awesome on the build machine. Im thinking "Bundaburg" from the 1st Armd Regiment.

A bit of Barracuda sets it off even more I think !

Paul

[Maverick]

You'll be glad to know that Trumpeter are releasing an ASLAV in 35th for the future.  There's a thread over on Armorama, which I guess you may have noticed.  It's great that the mainstream companies are slowly getting kit for our fellas in addition to the usual suspects of Modern US or WW2 German stuff.  I used Aussie decals markings for my Leo.  They were originally M113 decals, but a bit of judicious whiffing and they turned out quite ok.  I also did a LAV with the UGWS turret off an AAV7 as an Aussie vehicle.  My build thread including the Leo & LAV is here:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?topic=17372.new;topicseen#new

Regards,

Mav

[barraxr8]

Yeah I saw the ASLAV thread Mav, there is a another thread under 'Modern AFV's' that I have been posting some of my ASLAV build on - I'm waiting on a few new bits from Mouse House ATM.

I fair bit of scratch building involved, but the Trumpeter kit was expected. I'll get back into that one when the new bits arrive.

Your AFV's above are cool ! The tank with the external gun reminds me of the russian BTR-T of which I've seen pics on the net.

edit: grammer

[PanzerWulff]

some thoughts for whiffery 1.Canvas skirt extentions similar to those on some challenger 2's (I figure most australian tanks would be operating in dusty conditions) 2.Infantry intercom phone box (I dont know if the Leo-2 has one) and 3.Slat armor over the rear hull (To protect the engine from pesky RPG's up the backside)
If iI can think of any other possibilities I'll let ya know BTW most of these are ideas I plan on putting on a Abrams A2 I'm working on
"Panzer"

[Maverick]

Glad you enjoyed them Paul.  The builds were part of the first Armour GB we had on here and it was a hoot to be sure.  I'm looking forward to the ASLAV and hope they consider the other Aussie variants along with it.  All we need now is for someone (mmm Trumpy) to do some LAV-IIIs in styrene instead of the Real Model conversions for the Kiwis & Canucks.

Regards,

Mav

[barraxr8]

Regarding ASLAV's Mav, I also have the Mouse House ASLAV PC kit in my stash. That'll look awesome with the RWS and all the stowage etc 

The Abrams we have received are not really refurbished, they are completed rebuilt. Pretty much everything is replaced except for the Hull and turret / gun which are made as new anyway.

From what I understand the software in the AIM level Abrams (Ausse) is at M1A2 SEP level, so those tanks are pretty much state of the art except for Depleted Uranium armor. The DoD got a great deal on them thanks to the US Government. 

The Leo with the 55 Cal Gun looks a lot more menacing than the M1A1 with the L44 

[Maverick]

I certainly wasn't aware of the Abrams being of that level.  Most of what I'd seen had suggested that they were 'something for the boys to play with' rather than a serious replacement for our Leos.  Greg (GTX) suggested that we'd actually take charge of US vehicles in the event that we deployed, given that we only tend to play with Uncle Sam anway.

Regards,

Mav