New Rides Without Enough New Guns- Vehicles/Ships With Salvaged Weapons

[Weaver]

scaleorama up to get Bolos/Ogres)

Bolos/Ogres?

Bolos are artificially intelligent tanks/fighting machines, originally created by Keith Laumer, then later fleshed out by other authors.  The earliest version was simply a very large tank with a big gun and a fuzzy-logic targeting computer.  Later models were produced during a war between Earth and the Deng, and later the Melconians (Yes, I am a fan).  The later marks are fusion-powered, with Hellbores for main armament.

Ogres are, I think, a similar machine on a hovercraft chassis produced for a tabletop gaming system.

Ogres come from the game of the same name by Steve Jackson Games. Essentially, a giant cybernetic battle tank called an Ogre (which you have to destroy bit by bit), comes down the board opposed by conventional armour and infantry (which are destroyed in one hit). SJ cites Bolos as an inspiration, but Ogres are rather different, AFAIK. They DO run on tracks by the way: the confusion might arise because the expanded follow-on game is called GEV which is an abbreviation for Ground Effect Vehicle. However this relates to conventional hovercraft units, not Ogres themselves.

[pyro-manic]

The Royal Navy has recently acquired a new class of auxiliary landing ships the "Bay" class. These four ships have proven to be very useful - one intercepted a massive cocaine shipment on it's maiden deployment, and another is currently serving as the South Atlantic patrol ship. These ships are, however, very lightly armed. They are normally only equipped with small calibre weapons - manually-operated miniguns, and 30mm deck guns. I believe there is also provision for Phalanx CIWS systems to be fitted when necessary. An interesting idea I read about recently was to fit a 4.5" turret from one of the now-decommissioned Type 42 destroyers to a Bay-class - providing greatly increased firepower, good anti-ship and deterrent/intimidation capability for current anti-piracy ops off Somalia, and fire support for landing troops.

While there is no model (and there is never likely to be one) for the Bay-class, a similar conversion could be interesting for models of "civilian" ships pressed into service. Add some ECM and comms gear, a few small deck guns (20 or 30mm), and a turret off an old warship.

[dy031101]

This one...... perhaps not exactly a "new ride" per se......

According to the Chinese version of Wikipedia, the ROCA acquired after WWII a batch of surplus M10 tank destroyers, which had their main guns rendered inoperable before delivery.

These vehicles were re-gunned with 105mm howitzers left behind by the Japanese (according to my brief browsing English Wikipedia, probably the Type 91, introduced since early 1930s), the mountings for the guns were made more compact for easier handling within the confine of a tank turret.

One prototype and 16 production examples were made.

[Mossie]

The Katyusha has been in vogue again in recent times.  Simple & realtively easy to manufacturer or obtain, you could mount them on a modern for some quite considerable firepower.  Wether the Soviet original, newer variant or a home grown version, it could add a fair bit oomph to modern APC's obatined without weapons.

[pyro-manic]

I'm willing to bet the home-made rockets used by Islamic Jihad and their ilk in Gaza are, or can be, launched from the back of a truck. Could be an interesting build to put something similar on a pick-up model or similar. Or maybe something similar to the Sherman Calliope or "Stuka zu Fuss" halftracks from the Second World War?

[dy031101]

Or maybe something similar to the Sherman Calliope or "Stuka zu Fuss" halftracks from the Second World War?

A modern-day "Sherman Calliope"?  Katyusha rocket launcher mounted (in a jettisonable manner?) atop the T-54/55/62/72 tank?

[Joe C-P]

Such rockets are no longer useful in modern warfare. They can't be aimed, only pointed, so they're only good against massed personnel or vehicles.
However, putting them on generic trucks would allow rockets to be hidden until launching, and provide the shooter with an escape vehicle. If your only goal is to terrorize civilians without having to get a suicide bomber through security measures, then this is the weapon to use.

[dy031101]

Recently I came across info on Patagon light tank of the Argentine Army...... a SK-105 hull (there are conflicting claims on those being newly built or assembled from surplus Austrian parts) with an AMX-13 turret taken from Argentina's existing stock.

Whichever the case is, the SK-105 hulls ought to be newer and more serviceable than the AMX-13...... interesting.  What other potential combinations like this would be out there?

[Weaver]

Saladin armoured car with GIAT 90mm low-pressure gun salvaged from an AML-90 (which has thinner armour and less cross-country mobility). You'd want the Perkins diesel engine conversion too.

PT-76 with same mod as above.

Sweden bought a job lot of BMP-1s from Germany and put them into service with the dangerous-to-user autoloader removed. You could imagine a similar deal where the entire turret was replaced: it's big for a 1-man turret so just about any other one-manner would fit.

Not quite the same proposition, but.... The British army converted all it's Scorpions to Sabres by fitting them with redundant Fox turrets. What if the surplus Scorpion turrets were sold off? You could imagine them fitted to surplus FV432s (which must be possible because some of the latter had Fox turrets), M8s (?) Stuarts, BMP-2s (for HE fire support), Ratels, Fuchs etc...

[dy031101]

Saladin armoured car with GIAT 90mm low-pressure gun salvaged from an AML-90 (which has thinner armour and less cross-country mobility). You'd want the Perkins diesel engine conversion too.

Sweden bought a job lot of BMP-1s from Germany and put them into service with the dangerous-to-user autoloader removed. You could imagine a similar deal where the entire turret was replaced: it's big for a 1-man turret so just about any other one-manner would fit.

I got a crazy idea: would the AML-90 turret fit onto the turret ring of BMP-1 hull for a 90mm-gun-armed MICV?

PT-76 with same mod as above.

Although it wouldn't have exactly been a new ride, LVTH-6 with the same mod as well...... or would the 105mm howitzer still have been a better anti-vehicle weapon?

Not quite the same proposition, but.... The British army converted all it's Scorpions to Sabres by fitting them with redundant Fox turrets. What if the surplus Scorpion turrets were sold off? You could imagine them fitted to surplus FV432s (which must be possible because some of the latter had Fox turrets), M8s (?) Stuarts, BMP-2s (for HE fire support), Ratels, Fuchs etc...

This reminds me of an idea that I used to mess around with- turret of M8 HMC with hull of X1A/A1 light tank.

[dy031101]

Sweden bought a job lot of BMP-1s from Germany and put them into service with the dangerous-to-user autoloader removed.

Thinking about it, I have a question.  Did the removal of the autoloader make room for a human loader instead?

[Weaver]

I got a crazy idea: would the AML-90 turret fit onto the turret ring of BMP-1 hull for a 90mm-gun-armed MICV?

I doubt it, although you might be able to cut the BMP-1 a bigger turret ring. Don't actually have the turret ring diameter for the BMP-1 though. I'm sure it would fit on the BMP-2, to give HE fire support to the 30mm-armed vehicles, or you could even put a GIAT TS-90 or Cockerill Mk.8 turret on a BMP-2, giving a vehicle equivalent to the AMX-10 PAC-90.

Sweden bought a job lot of BMP-1s from Germany and put them into service with the dangerous-to-user autoloader removed.

Thinking about it, I have a question.  Did the removal of the autoloader make room for a human loader instead?

No it didn't: the poor bloody gunner just has to load it himself!

[dy031101]

No it didn't: the poor bloody gunner just has to load it himself!

Hum...... oh well, it'd still be this way if AML-90 turret or CSE-90 system is used as a replacement.

Makes me wonder if a guided missile that can be fired out of these shorter guns would be useful as well......

[Weaver]

No it didn't: the poor bloody gunner just has to load it himself!

Hum...... oh well, it'd still be this way if AML-90 turret or CSE-90 system is used as a replacement.

Makes me wonder if a guided missile that can be fired out of these shorter guns would be useful as well......

Well the AML-90 is a 2-man turret, so I presume that the commander loads the gun in the manner of other such turrets.

ATGWs tend to have HEAT warheads where diameter is critical to performance. Doubts have been expressed about the penetration of Russian 100mm gun-launched missiles, so I suspect that 90mm is probably a step too far. I'd be more inclined to stick a MILAN on the commander's hatch in the manner of the Marder, which would then give you the option of using it dismounted.

Something I've often wondered is whether you could design a closed-breech turret gun to fire the 84mm Carl Gustav round (at a much higher velocity than the RCL, obviously). That would let you have a fire support vehicle with an 84mm gun in the turret and a Charlie G team in the back, both of whom can fire all the vehicle's common ammo.

[dy031101]

When the 105mm-gun-armed version of CM32 Clouded Leopard was unveiled, I've heard comments that the turret appears to be based on that of the M41 light tank, so I thought about the idea of combining the Clouded Leopard hull with the turret of M41 except that IMHO the 76mm gun would be too much of a step backward from the NATO-standard-compatible weapon on the Clouded Leopard assault gun...... M41 turret previously upgunned with the same 105mm as used on the AMX-13/105 would have been fun, but the ROCA doesn't have such guns......