More questions you'd feel dumb asking anywhere else but here...

[McGreig]

I thought that the Swordfish was actually the TSR-2 and that the TSR-1 was an earlier design, possibly also by Fairey?

[PR19_Kit]

Well OK, the TSR l (Roman 1) was the Fairey private venture aircraft that preceeded the Swordfish programme.

The Swordfish itself was the TSR ll (Roman 2). In this case the TSR stood for Torpedo Spotter Reconnaissance

[Martin H]

The tanks landed inside the airfield perimeter without igniting and were later converted to a twin-hulled boat for the use of the USAF crews based at Hickham Field, co-located at the same site.

Y'see you just wouldn't get this stuff anywhere else but here..... great anecdote, Kit.

Ian

Theres a Cranberry tip tank mounted on the hanger wall at Doncaster Aero Venture,thats been converted into a boat.

[sotoolslinger]

Ok here's my dumb question. Drop tanks ,How expendable are they. I know the concept in combat is to burn through all the gas in the droptanks and then lose them to improve your flight capabilities in a fight. What about training and standard patrols where nothing actually happens. Every time I have ever seen combat aircraft, F-16 and 18, they are always sporting tanks(cause they got crappy range) Do they land with them?  Is there some where around all the military bases where there are big piles o discards. What about the Navy and Marines. If they are just practicing or running standard patrols do they have to land back on carriers dragging empty tanks or do they let them drop em?

[Jschmus]

Ok here's my dumb question. Drop tanks ,How expendable are they. I know the concept in combat is to burn through all the gas in the droptanks and then lose them to improve your flight capabilities in a fight. What about training and standard patrols where nothing actually happens. Every time I have ever seen combat aircraft, F-16 and 18, they are always sporting tanks(cause they got crappy range) Do they land with them?  Is there some where around all the military bases where there are big piles o discards. What about the Navy and Marines. If they are just practicing or running standard patrols do they have to land back on carriers dragging empty tanks or do they let them drop em?

If I remember correctly, they only drop "drop tanks" in emergencies, like if they have to dump fuel in a hurry to land or some such.  Most of the time, the tanks stay on.

[PR19_Kit]

In WWII the P-51, and perhaps other types too, had drop tanks made of paper, I kid you not.

They weighed almost nothing apparently and cost even less, even though they were treated with some gunge to stop the fuel splurging right through the tank. Apparently the Mustang could land with them fitted, but most missions required them to be dropped off over Europe somewhere.

One imagines a thin layer of paper drop tanks evenly distributed across Belgium, Holland and Germany..........

My Dad flew PR Spitfires of various Marks in the Second Great Argument, and many of his flights required the big 90 gallon tank to be carried. In all cases they drew the fuel from that first and got rid of it sharpish, as it gave the aircraft a far aft CG and made it hell to fly. He did some flights with the even larger 160 gall tank too, I think they were 160 galls anyway, but not sure, and said he hated every minute of that!

[The Rat]

But was there, or will there be, a TSR3?

There will be if we have anything to do with it! 

[jcf]

Torpedo-Spotter-Reconnaissance in the case of the Fairey TSR I (F.1875 private venture aircraft) and TSR II ( to spec  S.15/33 and the Swordfish prototype).

Jon

[Mossie]

Theres a Cranberry tip tank mounted on the hanger wall at Doncaster Aero Venture,thats been converted into a boat.

You know Martin, I've been there several times now & never spotted it!  I did get this one though, on a visit to the Royal Armouries in Leeds:



It's a ventral tank from an F-4 IIRC (bloody 'normous too) dropped over Laos during the Vietnam war, you can still see some of the stencils.  An enterprising local realised that the vast number of tanks found in Laos could be put to good use.  He knocked some into canoes & it caught on, apparently they're not uncommon in that part of the world.

[PR19_Kit]

It's a ventral tank from an F-4 IIRC (bloody 'normous too) dropped over Laos during the Vietnam war, you can still see some of the stencils.  An enterprising local realised that the vast number of tanks found in Laos could be put to good use.  He knocked some into canoes & it caught on, apparently they're not uncommon in that part of the world.

Magic, I love the way they kept the stabilising fins at the rear. I bet they really add to the stability while sculling down the river.... 

How, and why did it get to Leeds though?

[NARSES2]

If you were told that - "they" would probably have to shoot you 

[PR19_Kit]

- "they" would probably have to shoot you 

'They' have been trying to do that since 1994, when I sprung the news of the PR19 on the world. They have yet to even find me.

Plus I've been known to shoot back as well......

[Ian the Kiwi Herder]

Another couple of drop-tank anecdotes.

Dassault designed their 270L 'skinny' tanks for the Mirage III/V series so that the aircraft could fly supersonic without dropping them. However they weren't stressed for anything above 3.5G's so whilst the aircraft could go fast in a relatively straight line, it would have to drop the tanks if 'turnin' & burnin' was needed.

Other anecdotes from the cold war era:
Typical endurance of:-
an F-104 without tanks 25-30mins
a Mirage III without tanks 30-35mins
a Lightning without tanks 25mins

'Course these could be aviation myths and there's no way of knowing how much fuel was usually held in reserve. Also the book I got this from, doesn't say if ammunition or missiles are carried.

A related 'happy memory'  - The last three Lightning chase-planes flying from Warton in the early nineties almost always went out with the overwing tanks on (and used almost all of the runway to get aloft), so you know that they weren't going supersonic, but they were never out more than 45mins !

Ian

[upnorth]

The Swordfish itself was the TSR ll (Roman 2). In this case the TSR stood for Torpedo Spotter Reconnaissance

I thought it stood for Taranto Ship Removals

[Mossie]

It's a ventral tank from an F-4 IIRC (bloody 'normous too) dropped over Laos during the Vietnam war, you can still see some of the stencils.  An enterprising local realised that the vast number of tanks found in Laos could be put to good use.  He knocked some into canoes & it caught on, apparently they're not uncommon in that part of the world.

Magic, I love the way they kept the stabilising fins at the rear. I bet they really add to the stability while sculling down the river.... 

How, and why did it get to Leeds though?

I'm going on memory from reading the plaque about two years ago, but I think the general gist was that someone at the armouries found out about them, then arranged to have one shipped for the collection.  I found the static exhibitions a litte dry at times, a room full of cabinets full of knives, another full of swords etc, but there are some gems to be found, like the drop tank canoe & a chair made out of AK-47's:


From memory again, but I think this was from Africa, part of a fund raiser for anti-war charities.  Local people were asked to create objects & art, they were then auctioned in the West to raise money.