Pershing and Patton Family of MBT (M26, M46, M47, M48, M60, and M103)

GTX · January 06, 2009, 11:23:17 AM

Hi folks,

How about some M46, M47, M48 and/or M60 Patton tank whiffs?

To start with, maybe some alternative operators:

M-60s for Australia and Canada instead of the Leopard?

Regards,

Greg

Jschmus · January 06, 2009, 12:04:38 PM

I'm game. Other candidates could be Germany (if there was no Leopard), France (no AMX-30) and Japan (no Type 61 or Type 74). To take things a bit further, suppose there had been major bugs in GM's M1 program, leading to delays or even cancellation. The US Army would be forced to adapt the later model M60s to keep pace with changes in armor tactics and technologies, possibly leading to the development of a home-grown tank like Israel's Magach 7:

General Dynamics Land Systems devised a version called the M60-2000, which was upgunned with a 120mm smoothbore gun. Some of these mods made it into production as the Turkish Sabra.

dy031101 · January 06, 2009, 12:15:23 PM

Quote from: Jschmus on January 06, 2009, 12:04:38 PM
General Dynamics Land Systems devised a version called the M60-2000, which was upgunned with a 120mm smoothbore gun. Some of these mods made it into production as the Turkish Sabra.

The GDLS project is called 120S now. It is basically M60 hull (with side skirts and some automotive upgrades) armed with the turret of M1A1.

That, when combined with your scenario of M1 being delayed, would be a bit like the way M47 was born- a new turret on a proven chassis.

Jeffry Fontaine · January 06, 2009, 01:49:48 PM

Shortly after the MBT-70/XM-803 was canceled and about the same time that the M1 program began in earnest there was a proposal made to fit an extended barrel to the existing 105mm ordnance on the M60 series tanks. The increase in barrel length would have addressed the penetration issues of the original M68 105mm gun with the current armor threat but it also threatened the M1 Abrams project so it was ignored.

jorel62 · January 06, 2009, 01:57:13 PM

Maverick did some real nice M-60's check out his stuff.....

Radish · January 07, 2009, 01:15:13 AM

Lots of modifications possible like the Israelis do too.

Sauragnmon · January 07, 2009, 01:32:31 AM

I had a concept design that I've partially put into plastic myself, based on the 120S, of the Leopard 2 turret and some armor upgrades mated onto the M-60, which would work for a country like Spain, which operates the Leo 2 and has the M60 in its stockpile - a situation where they might need more tanks on the cheap, so to speak, so they rebuild their M60's with new engine, suspension, additional armor and the Leopard 2 turret mounting to upgrade the punch.

ysi_maniac · January 07, 2009, 12:33:22 PM

^^^^

GTX · January 07, 2009, 12:35:49 PM

There were actually quite a few real world Patton developments that are quite interesting. Some include:

T54:

T54E1:

T69:

T77:

Perhaps the best reference is "Patton: A history of the American Main Battle Tank" by R.P. Hunnicutt - I stongly recommend this if you want to find out more.

Regards,

Greg

dy031101 · January 07, 2009, 08:27:47 PM

I'm still looking for a modern turret that can take a 105mm gun and be fitted onto all members of the Patton tank family.

In my mental note thread I scaled-up Stingray tank turret...... but what I really want is something that doesn't need such an alteration......

ysi_maniac · January 08, 2009, 05:12:58 AM

Quote from: dy031101 on January 07, 2009, 08:27:47 PM
I'm still looking for a modern turret that can take a 105mm gun and be fitted onto all members of the Patton tank family.

What do you mean? M60, M48 and M47 had already been equipped with 105mm gun (from begin or after upgrade). IMO M47's turret can be installed in a M46 hull.

dy031101 · January 08, 2009, 07:19:50 AM

Quote from: ysi_maniac on January 08, 2009, 05:12:58 AM
What do you mean? M60, M48 and M47 had already been equipped with 105mm gun (from begin or after upgrade). IMO M47's turret can be installed in a M46 hull.

I mean one that can replace the original turrets of M47 (by extention M46 and M26, since M47 is M46 with a different turret and M46 is M26 with a different turret and some automotive upgrade) and M48 and offers superior protection as well as (probably) more space for ammunitions and crew comfort.

I don't think it's likely, but can M46, M47, and M48 actually take the turret of M60A3 (since there are so many up-armouring options for that turret......)?

ysi_maniac · January 08, 2009, 11:01:16 AM

^^^^^ AFAIK the problem is the size of the ring. But 105mm gun can be fitted to 3 different turrets (M60, M48 and M47)

dy031101 · January 08, 2009, 12:07:34 PM

Quote from: ysi_maniac on January 08, 2009, 11:01:16 AM
^^^^^ AFAIK the problem is the size of the ring. But 105mm gun can be fitted to 3 different turrets (M60, M48 and M47)

Just want to see how far I can go in terms of commonality.

dy031101 · March 23, 2009, 07:32:41 PM

Quote from: apophenia on March 23, 2009, 07:30:05 PM
Quote from: Sauragnmon on January 07, 2009, 01:32:31 AM
I had a concept ... of the Leopard 2 turret and some armor upgrades mated onto the M-60...

Older post, I know, but the two Bundeswehr M48s with Leopard 2 turrets are similar to this concept.

Super!

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