AMX-30 MBT and everything else based on it

[dy031101]

Feel free to post questions and what-if ideas about the AMX-30 family here.



Here are mine......


Question:

Is the 105mm main gun of late variant AMX-13 a derivative of the ones used by AMX-30 and M51 Sherman (i.e. do AMX-13 and AMX-30 share the same ammunitions)?


Ideas:

The Israeli M51 Sherman tanks use a variant of the main gun used by AMX-30, so I feel it to be kinda natural to wonder what would've happened if the M60 MBT and particularly the L7 rifled gun should be for some reason unavailable to Israel until much later.

What if the Arab nations decided to antagonize the French outright instead of merely threatening them against sell arms to Israel?

So...... Israeli AMX-30 anybody?

Merkava and upgraded M48 tanks armed with the full-size gun taken directly from AMX-30?

Magach series based on AMX-30?

[MAD]

Thankfully the Israeli Army did not choose the AMX-30!
As the MBT is the spear force of the Israeli Army, I could just imagine all the problems that the French could have given!
I have always been dubious of most military things French designed or built.
For in many cases the poor old French soldier has come off second best, for want of foreign export potential of their weapons systems.
I believe this is one of the contributing factors, as to why the French pulled out of the Joint French / German MBT, which favored the German Leopard 1 design.
The French finding the German Leopard design more specifically tailored for the European Battlefield and experience of tank warfare, not to mention its cost, which would jeopardize its potential for export.
So the French choose (as it has done so many other time before) to go their own way to produce the cheaper and less capable AMX-30.
And guess what?
The French were able to export its AMX-30 MBT design far easier to foreign army's (some very dubious!), where as the Leopard 1 was restricted to NATO country's + Australia.

No sorry, I know its 'What If'!
But I would rather stick with the venerable M51 Sherman, than the AMX-30

Good luck with your Post

M.A.D

[Just call me Ray]

Going back on topic, how about a heavily modernized AMX-30 with a Leclerc's turret ala the M60-2000?

[dy031101]

Going back on topic, how about a heavily modernized AMX-30 with a Leclerc's turret ala the M60-2000?

Nexter/GIAT actually came up with a smaller derivative of the turret for upgrading M60 and T72.  It should work with AMX-30, too.

As the MBT is the spear force of the Israeli Army, I could just imagine all the problems that the French could have given!

Would you elabourate?  (No offense taken.)

Of course, by late 1990s its relative obsolescence should be expected since I don't think any surviving example has gone through much in the way of a sustantial upgrade (correct me if I'm wrong)......

Chances are, if Israel did acquire them in large numbers, they would have devised kits like Magach to at least largely fix the problems.

Or do you think that such a move might somehow upset the French?

The French were able to export its AMX-30 MBT design far easier to foreign army's (some very dubious!), where as the Leopard 1 was restricted to NATO country's + Australia.

I was thinking...... being able to be exported to countries with bad reputations shouldn't pass or fail a weapon design on the report card.

[ysi_maniac]

AFAIK AMX-30 problems are to do with propulsion (engine, transmision and suspension), but turret and gun are excellent. In fact, there were plans to build a mix of Leopard's hull and AMX-30's turret. This happened in the beginning of both programs and several years later the Spanish Army considered this alternative as Project LEOX.

[dy031101]

Going back on topic, how about a heavily modernized AMX-30 with a Leclerc's turret ala the M60-2000?

Nexter/GIAT actually came up with a smaller derivative of the turret for upgrading M60 and T72.  It should work with AMX-30, too.

Found a picture of its scaled model.

[MAD]

Would you elabourate?  (No offense taken.)

Of course, by late 1990s its relative obsolescence should be expected since I don't think any surviving example has gone through much in the way of a sustantial upgrade (correct me if I'm wrong)......

Chances are, if Israel did acquire them in large numbers, they would have devised kits like Magach to at least largely fix the problems.

Or do you think that such a move might somehow upset the French?

Sorry it has taken so long for me to respond!
And no offense taken at all mate!!
And I did not intend on getting off topic –Sorry!

What I was getting at was to do with the original 1957 'Standard-Panzer' agreement that West Germany and France agreed to, which lead to the prototype comparative trails of the Leopard 1 vs. AMX-30 designs in 1963..

During these trials it was demonstrated that the German tank (Leopard 1) had the edge over the French (AMX-30) MBT.

I was thinking...... being able to be exported to countries with bad reputations shouldn't pass or fail a weapon design on the report card.

No but do I think it was a compromise, by many of these dubious countries due to the fact that not many other nations would sell them their superior MBT designs of the time.
Added to this is the fact of well known French political wheeling and dealing to sell their nations military hardware's.
And with less capability (the AMX-30), usually derives a cheaper price.

No given the choice, I think the Israeli army would have chosen many other designs over that of the AMX-30!
I would have opted for more older and upgraded Centurion's over that of the younger AMX-30 any day!
I have always been interested as to how the AMX-30 performed in Desert Storm in 1991?

Again I will pull my head in, and allow you're 'What If' to continue

Sorry again
M.A.D

[Just call me Ray]

I have always been interested as to how the AMX-30 performed in Desert Storm in 1991?

According to the Wikipedia article they achieved something to the effect of a 5:1 kill ratio in a single skirmish, the only offensive AMX-30s have yet to be engaged in.

[ysi_maniac]

During these trials it was demonstrated that the German tank (Leopard 1) had the edge over the French (AMX-30) MBT.

According to my references, Leopard was superior in movility parameters, but AMX-30 was the winner in firing/accuracy tests. That is why a mix (leopad hull/AMX-30 turret) was proposed.

Carlos.

[GTX]

It would be interesting to see an AMX-30 done up Israeli style with Reactive Armour etc such as they did with their M-60s:




Regards,

Greg

[Logan Hartke]

It would be interesting to see an AMX-30 done up Israeli style with Reactive Armour etc such as they did with their M-60s:

You mean like the AMX-30B2 Brenus?



Logan Hartke

[ysi_maniac]

Italy and Spain gives 2nd line armour to Ukraine.