Original Alt. Luftwaffe GB discussion thread

[Taiidantomcat]

I like those Mossie Ta-154s are some of my favoites

[Mossie]

Thanks!  The Revell 1/48 Ta-154 is a lovely kit, it'd be worth doing oob, or largely at least.

[Taiidantomcat]

Maverick made these:

[sequoiaranger]

Yeah, I did a similar one about twenty years ago, and liked it, but I have a "resurrection plan" to include a longer and slightly larger fuselage partly from a Lindberg (1/64?) He-111. Shown below is my "He-211" Maritime Reconnaissance Torpedo Bomber. I kept the "old" nose and elliptical wings just for aesthetic purposes.

I never understood why Heinkel went to such lengths (should I say widths?) to make a glider tug like the He-111Z. One would have thought that a four-motor like "ours" would have been beneficial to the Kriegsmarine.

Keep up the good work. I'll be interested in how yours turns out.

[Sisko]

I know  yours was the inspiration for me doing mine!

In fact your website of kitbashes and builds was a great source of inspiration for me in my early days of whiffing. I also loved your jaguar the glazed light bomber that you bashed from a Me-110

I am determined to finish mine this year!!!!!

[sequoiaranger]

>In fact your website of kitbashes and builds was a great source of inspiration for me in my early days of whiffing.<

Glad to be "of inspiration". This whiffing hobby really is fun, as one can use one's imagination as well as "reality".


>I also loved your jaguar the glazed light bomber that you bashed from a Me-110<

Thank you. That was a "real" aircraft--a Bf-162. At the time it was my most complicated build (double engine transplant, wingtips added, underwing radiators shaved off and changed, shortened pilot's compartment and glazing, three-piece glass nose (from Vac-u-formed attempts at duplicating the solid nose in clear--there were always wrinkles somewhere), and fuselage thickening and lengthening (turned out that one source I had read indicated that the Bf-162 was a little longer than a Bf-110, which turned out not to be true).

While on a trip to Britain in 1972 I found an "Official British Air Ministry History" paperback on the Battle of Britain, written in 1941, that had drawings and description of the aircraft both sides used in the Battle. Among them were the "He-113" (He-100) and the "Jaguar" (see Jaguar book illustration below--He-113 was just mentioned in text). Further research turned up the Bf-162 that was undoubtedly the source of the drawing. Though the "appearance" of He-100's and Jaguars in the Battle was strictly an invention of German propaganda (spurious markings were added and photographed in quasi-operational settings) they were "reported" by the British as being used in the Battle in small quantities (of course, no one seemed to notice that these two aircraft types were not seen anywhere else at any time). So of course I "HAD" to model a He-113 and a  Jaguar*!

[*both are in my Gallery]

[Weaver]

Here's a thought:

Lindberg have just re-issued their 1/72nd He-100 (just missed one on ebay... ). How about doing an operational version with a conventional cooling system, assuming the Lindberg one doesn't have already have one, of course (I'm not clear what sub-type it's supposed to be)?

You could scratchbuild the mod, or alternatively, Hobbycraft have an Italeri P-51 going for £4.00 (?) at the moment: you could cut the radiator duct off it and fit it to the Heinkel. It's not like the remains of the Mustang are going to go to waste, is it? 

[sequoiaranger]

>Lindberg has just re-issued their 1/72nd He-100 (just missed one on ebay). How about doing an operational version with a conventional cooling system, assuming the Lindberg one doesn't have already have one, of course (I'm not clear what sub-type it's supposed to be)? You could scratchbuild the mod, or alternatively, Hobbycraft have an Italeri P-51 going for £4.00 (?) at the moment: you could cut the radiator duct off it and fit it to the Heinkel.<

I am an aficionado of the He-100, and had a dozen or so of the old, original Lindberg He-100's when they came out in the mid-60's. They cost $.79 at the time!! They're all gone; sold off.  . Before those were commercially available, I had converted/built a He-100 out of the Revell Hein (odd one with a tilt-over canopy like a Bf-109). There really weren't any "sub-types" of the He-100, as even the ones that were painted to LOOK like operational aircraft were all pre-production prototypes.

The Lindberg one was very basic, but captured the look.  The exhausts were too enlarged, however. The Japanese Ki-61 (I will bet money that the Ki-61 was heavily influenced by the He-100's that Japan bought for evaluation) had an almost identical nose and "proper" exhausts.  I made my "best" He-100 (or He-113, as I liked to call it) out of the nose of a Hasegawa Hein (with the rounded under-engine part of the He-100). I also made the short-winged V8 racer from a Lindberg kit (there is a commercial one of the V8 racer out now, for some $30!!).

I had always wanted to do a "desert" He-100, but even my whiffer mind wouldn't allow a plane with chronic engine cooling problems to go to the desert!! Couple that with a desert He-177 for a real "loser duo"!!

Then, like you, wondered what the He-100/113 would look like if it had a conventional ventral radiator (the weak point in the He-100 aircraft system--a surface-evaporation cooling system) and promptly sawed of a P-51's and added it on. I don't have a picture of it from underneath showing the new radiator, but present below my He-113T evolution. I also added clipped Spitfire semi-elliptical wings (elliptical wings were a Heinkel trademark), and the canopy of a He-162.

PS--I have not yet built the MPM He-100, but although they are very basic as well, they are a step in quality above the Lindberg one. I wouldn't feel sorry that I missed the e-bay Lindberg one except for nostalgia.

PPS-Lindberg ran a line of 1/72 German subjects none of the "Big" manufacturers would do for years to come (He-100, Me-410, Hs-129, He-162, Do-335, Ar-234, Me-163, He-219) In fact, the ancient Lindberg Ar-234 has the BEST fuselage rendition---the newer ones (DML, FROG) have a way-too-flat dorsal cross-section. In fact, when I do my "Mein Flucht" what-if Hitler escape-machine that combines the Ar-234 with the Do-335, I will be using the Lindberg Ar-234 (and maybe even the Lindberg Do-335 as well)!!

[Weaver]

Cheers Sequoiaranger - thought I couldn't be the first to think of it! Nice looking model: the Spitfire wings are a "naughty" but logical addition (can see JMNs building up steam already.... )

The reason I mentioned sub-types is that the Wikipedia article on the plane states that some late "sub-types" (D-1?) had an enlarged normal radiator in the same place as the old retractable one. It also mentions that there is a debate about nomenclature amongst historians caused by the destruction of Heinkel records during the war, and that at least two rival systems of describing the variants of the He-100 exist.....

[sequoiaranger]

>The reason I mentioned sub-types is that the Wikipedia article on the plane states that some late "sub-types" (D-1?) had an enlarged normal radiator in the same place as the old retractable one. It also mentions that there is a debate about nomenclature amongst historians caused by the destruction of Heinkel records during the war, and that at least two rival systems of describing the variants of the He-100 exist.....<

The "D"-series "fighters" were Heinkel's batch of 12 un-authorized "production" models, half of which were export prototypes destined for the Soviet Union or Japan. I can't really call these planes "production sub-types", but they were a small "batch" of similar aircraft. I can find no mention in my sources of an "enlarged normal radiator" version. This phrase was used in a description of the He-119 aircraft (large, multi-place aircraft with the linked DB 606 engine behind the cockpit) that started out with a similar evaporation-cooling system. I am sure that Heinkel was ABOUT to make some arrangement for normal cooling, but his efforts at making a Heinkel fighter were quashed by the RLM. Heinkel was famous for making "private ventures" on his own and hoping that the RLM would take notice, but I think the He-100 died a pre-mature death when the RLM bull-headedly decided that Luftwaffe fighter aircraft would only be manufactured by Messerschmitt.

[sequoiaranger]

In case I was mis-understood in earlier posts, the so-called "production series" He-100 D's indeed had "normal" engine cooling via "normal" radiators.  The ventral "normal" radiator was larger then the puny supplementary radiator on the evaporation-cooling types, but still small and BARELY adequate for Northern Europe climes. Heinkel wanted to keep the radiator small to avoid losing aerodynamic cleanliness, and thus speed, but....ya gotta have excess cooling capability in a combat aircraft. When you mentioned "enlarged normal radiator" I thought you meant larger still than the D-series.

I ran across a reference that stated that every time Heinkel tried to get the RLM interested in his He-100, he gave it a different "series" number, as if to indicate improvements. The "truth" is that all the (about twenty total) He-100's built were virtually hand-made prototypes, some that were similarly built.

[Mossie]

Do I get a biscuit?

[Weaver]

I think we should have Luftwaffe 46 types in the markings that they would have worn - ie captured.  The evil turds deserved to lose.

OR, you could have Luft '36 types in "as shot down in 1940" condition....

OR, if you wanted a really alternative Luftwaffe, how about a non-Nazi one, i.e. the Weimar Republic's "air self defence force" after the Britain and France came to their senses, realised the danger from extreme politics, dropped reparations demands and saved German democracy by bailing the country out.....

[Mossie]

Yes.  Have several.  You venturing up to Tyneside on Sunday?

No, can't make that day unfortunately.  Next one I should be at is Cosford.

[Sauragnmon]

You know, if we can swing it, a perfect timing for this GB to either kick off, or end, would be the Luftwaffe's birthday.  I don't have the date on the top of my head, but that would be awesome.