Brazilian Kitty Hawk (CV-63) 2010

[dy031101]

"Legacy or Phenom range in various roles." Sorry didn´t understand this part, the JAS-39NG navalised :drool.. I will be buying 6 S-3B.

Both the Legacy and the Phenom are Embraer's lines of corporate jets.

GTX probably meant them (likely to be navalized varieties) as alternatives to the S-3, C-2, and even E-2.

[Arc3371]

Ah, that makes sense

[Mossie]

The Rafale M is a possibilty over a navalised Typhoon or Gripen, it has the advantage of being in service.

[Arc3371]

I will buy 20 Rafale M to use on the Nae Sao Paulo (ex Foch)

[GTX]

"Legacy or Phenom range in various roles." Sorry didn´t understand this part, the JAS-39NG navalised :drool.. I will be buying 6 S-3B.

Both the Legacy and the Phenom are Embraer's lines of corporate jets.

GTX probably meant them (likely to be navalized varieties) as alternatives to the S-3, C-2, and even E-2.

Spot on - see here for details of Embraer's home grown aircraft.

Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

"Legacy or Phenom range in various roles." Sorry didn´t understand this part, the JAS-39NG navalised :drool.. I will be buying 6 S-3B.

The question about carrier groups have been more or less resolved now comes the question about replacing the F-5M and AMX both needing replacements in the near future...

I would go with either the Gripen or Rafale - or you could simply follow Brazil's real world FX program (see here for details of competitors etc.)

Regards,

Greg

[Arc3371]

I was thinking of doing something very unrealistic.... Taking the SAAB J-35 and cram it full of modern systems and weapons, this will of course be built domestically

And here is what I have in mind for the Kitty:

Independência Class Aircraft carrier

This is a Service Life Extension and Modernization Program for the former CV-63 Kitty Hawk. The program includes the following:

New boilers
New Steam Sturbines
New Steam pipes
New Steam catapults

All to the original specifications

System upgrades, the following systems will replace the previously installed systems:
SPS-48E 3-D air search radar
SPS-49A(V)1 2-D air search radar
Mk 23 target acquisition radar
SPN-46 air traffic control radars
SPN-43B air traffic control radar
SPN-44 landing aid radars
3 × Mk 91 NSSM guidance systems
3 × Mk 95 radars
SLQ-32A(V)4 Countermeasures suite
SLQ-25A Nixie torpedo countermeasure

Armament upgrade:
2 × Mk 29 ESSM launcher to replace the current Sea Sparrows

Yeah I know not very realistic but its a game an the US player is aboard, dont want does pesky French to lay their hand on all that money...

[Arc3371]

BTW GTX you posted this in the J-35 thread do you have a sideview?

[GTX]

Afraid not - but it wouldn't look too different from a standard Draken from the side.

Regards,

Greg

[Hammer]

Hi guys,

Here in Brazil we are hearing more and more the talk of rationalizing our fighter force, this would imply that tha Navy woluld have to opt for a common model with the Air Force leaving only the F-18 and the Rafale to fight for this monopoly. Unfortunately cold war attitude to Russian hardware is still prevalent so I don't really see ny real chance for the Su-33 or the MiG-33 in Brazil, although the latter ought to be a good choice for the current smallish Sao Paulo carrier. Talk of modernization of the A-4Ku fleet which would allow them to fire BVR missiles has died down after the publication of the new Brazilian National Defense Strategy last December. Who know maybe the common fioghter plane may entice Brazil to step up its efforts in buiding locally a new larger CV able to make the most of F-18s and Rafales. On the side the guys at Dasssault have just offered the 10 Rafale M F1 aircraft current in service with the French Aeronavale to the Brazilina Navy (probably as a "sweetener" in order to fetch the air force's 36-aircraft order... Just last week the Brazilian Defense Minister put this competition in turmoil after saying in public that he would be willing to take a second look at the Su-35 and the EF-2000 that were discarded in December during a short listing gate that left the Rafale, the F-18 and the Gripen NG in play.

Also apparently there is a number of navy admirals interested in seeing the development of a navalized Super Tucano version... At this stage it is nothing but wild dreams, but who knows!

Regards,

Hammer

P.S.: The Kitty Hawk offer was discarded by Brazil because this ship demands a way-way-too-large crew for our standards....

[GTX]

I did think of a navalized Super Tucano version - I guess I'm not alone there.

Regards,

Greg

[Arc3371]

Hi guys,

Here in Brazil we are hearing more and more the talk of rationalizing our fighter force, this would imply that tha Navy woluld have to opt for a common model with the Air Force leaving only the F-18 and the Rafale to fight for this monopoly. Unfortunately cold war attitude to Russian hardware is still prevalent so I don't really see ny real chance for the Su-33 or the MiG-33 in Brazil, although the latter ought to be a good choice for the current smallish Sao Paulo carrier. Talk of modernization of the A-4Ku fleet which would allow them to fire BVR missiles has died down after the publication of the new Brazilian National Defense Strategy last December. Who know maybe the common fioghter plane may entice Brazil to step up its efforts in buiding locally a new larger CV able to make the most of F-18s and Rafales. On the side the guys at Dasssault have just offered the 10 Rafale M F1 aircraft current in service with the French Aeronavale to the Brazilina Navy (probably as a "sweetener" in order to fetch the air force's 36-aircraft order... Just last week the Brazilian Defense Minister put this competition in turmoil after saying in public that he would be willing to take a second look at the Su-35 and the EF-2000 that were discarded in December during a short listing gate that left the Rafale, the F-18 and the Gripen NG in play.

Also apparently there is a number of navy admirals interested in seeing the development of a navalized Super Tucano version... At this stage it is nothing but wild dreams, but who knows!

Regards,

Hammer

P.S.: The Kitty Hawk offer was discarded by Brazil because this ship demands a way-way-too-large crew for our standards....

Didnt Brazil just order Mi-35 gunships? So the Cold war mentality cant be all that deep. Anyway its always interesting to hear for the locals, in your opinion if the Brazilian armed forces were given a large purchasing budget what would they buy?

[Green Dragon]

Rafale M is a good choice though may be a bit expensive and for some idiotic reason the French Government often stick their noses into the deal and try to tack on loads of other equipment (tanks, ships and radar/SAM systems etc) that the customer doesn't need. They lost an order from Morocco that way.
BTW I'm liking the navalised Super Tucano idea big time! If I had a Tucano kit in the stash I'd be bashing it right now!

Paul Harrison

[Joe C-P]

Given that they were happy with upgraded A-4s, I can see them going with modernized F-4s and A-6s.

[ChernayaAkula]

Rafale would be a good choice (Dassault-fanboy speakin'  )! Brazil has a good history of operating Dassault fighters. And I think Dassault offered to have all the Rafales for the F-X2 programme license-built by Embraer. Regarding fleet commonality it would make sense to go for Rafales for both the air force and the navy.