Tank Hunters

[Weaver]

One for the treadheads, and a blindingly simple idea: what if, in WWII, Britain and America had adopted the turretless, Jagdpanzer-style tank-destroyer, in the way that Germany and Russia did?

Your mission (should you decide to accept it  ) is to develop an Allied, turretless tank-destroyer, based on a British or American tank chassis. It should have a rear engine, a front-mounted, limited-traverse anti-tank gun, a crew of at least four with enough room to work the gun, heavy armour over thr frontal arc and overhead armour. The gun should have a superior performance to generally available tank guns in the timeframe the tank-destroyer is deployed, i.e. if it's an early-war weapon based on, say, a Matilda or Crusader, then a 57mm/6-pounder will do. If it's in the post-Sherman era, then it will need a 76mm/17-pounder/90mm etc....

[Logan Hartke]

Why not expand the definition a bit and allow for Marder-style M5A1s or M24s with open-topped, rear-mounted superstructure and high-velocity 76mm or 17pdr gun, for example?

Maybe even allow for a German take on US TDs.  A PzKpfw IV with enlarged, open-topped turret and 7.5cm KwK 42 L/70?  Use a modified Ostwind with a cut-down turret (just cut out the middle third and splice back together) with a counterweight on the back and give it a Panther's gun and you really have a German M10.

Why not a German M18?  Get a PzKpfw III, give it overlapping suspension or modified 38(t) or 38(d) suspension and an open-topped turret with 7.5cm KwK 40 or KwK 42?  Take a Sd.Kfz.165/1 and give it a KwK 40.

Cheers,

Logan

[puddingwrestler]

Could we expand it to include any nation which did not use fixed gun tank destroyers? I really fancy the idea of a teeny-tiny italian tankette fitted with a bigger gun (so not very big then ) as a light tank destroyer for use against obsolete french FT-17s!

Also, could wheeled designs be entered? I'm thinking of the 'Hetzer' from Battletech - it looks like the Hetzer in real life, with a wheel at each corner. You could do something interesting with a rapid, field conversion of a bedford lorry or some such!

[Weaver]

Why not expand the definition a bit and allow for Marder-style M5A1s or M24s with open-topped, rear-mounted superstructure and high-velocity 76mm or 17pdr gun, for example?

Well I was trying to avoid such things because they were actually done in some cases, the Archer, for example, so they're not so uniquely German/Russian.

Maybe even allow for a German take on US TDs.  A PzKpfw IV with enlarged, open-topped turret and 7.5cm KwK 42 L/70?  Use a modified Ostwind with a cut-down turret (just cut out the middle third and splice back together) with a counterweight on the back and give it a Panther's gun and you really have a German M10.

Why not a German M18?  Get a PzKpfw III, give it overlapping suspension or modified 38(t) or 38(d) suspension and an open-topped turret with 7.5cm KwK 40 or KwK 42?  Take a Sd.Kfz.165/1 and give it a KwK 40.

Now that's interesting - 

Cheers,

Logan
[/quote]

[Weaver]

Could we expand it to include any nation which did not use fixed gun tank destroyers? I really fancy the idea of a teeny-tiny italian tankette fitted with a bigger gun (so not very big then ) as a light tank destroyer for use against obsolete french FT-17s!

Yep - I only excuded French designs because most of their's were improvised upon by the Germans, but come to thing of it, you could do pre-1940 ones. The Italians did some real JPz-style things (more assault guns, really) but plenty of scope for improvement as with all Italian armour.

I like the tankette idea: I was pondering a pre-war Brit 2-pounder carrier based on Bren-carrier components...

Also, could wheeled designs be entered? I'm thinking of the 'Hetzer' from Battletech - it looks like the Hetzer in real life, with a wheel at each corner. You could do something interesting with a rapid, field conversion of a bedford lorry or some such!

Yes, I think so: The Sdkfz-234 with a Pak-40 in an open-topped mount springs to mind: how about an M-20 (open-topped M8 Greyhound) with a 6-pounder?

[pyro-manic]

I'm pretty sure there was a British lorry-mounted anti-tank gun used in north Africa...?

[Weaver]

I'm pretty sure there was a British lorry-mounted anti-tank gun used in north Africa...?

"Portee" based on a Bedford QL? Used for 6-pdr AT guns and 25-pdr field guns IIRC.

[pyro-manic]

That sounds about right, yeah.

[philp]

Don't forget the Deacon.



I already plan to do a JagdSherman based on a M4A3 armed with a 90mm.  Just trying to come up with a good, US mantlet for it.
I had seen a sideview design that I liked but obviously, didn't save it
If anyone comes across one, let me know.

[Weaver]

I'll give the game away: my original inspiration came from looking idly at an M7 Priest kit and a 17-pounder AT-gun kit that happened to be stacked together in Modelzone. You could probably nick the roof panel and MG turret from an M3 Lee.....

[ChernayaAkula]

How about extending the timeframe?    Greg did an awesome profile for a Jagdleopard:



IMHO, one of the best tank whifs EVER! 

[jcf]

The Poles experimented with tankette based tank destroyers.
TKD, TKS-D & PZInz.160:
http://derela.republika.pl/tkd.htm

Comparative size drawing:

[nev]

Yeah, I wouldn't limit it to just WW2.  I mean, how are we going to get the Sci-Fi ones in?

[Weaver]

Yeah, I wouldn't limit it to just WW2.  I mean, how are we going to get the Sci-Fi ones in?

Okay, it could be extended beyond (and before) WWII, but I'd say the minimum requirement is a GUN in a frontal, limited-traverse mounting. Any more flexible and it becomes meaningless.

[philp]

Oh boy, Power Gun armed Tank Destroyer on a hover platform.  Hey, didn't they have something like this in the Hammer's Slammers universe?  Pretty sure some of the other Mercenary units had this to try and counter Hammer's panzers.