D4Y8 Suisei-Kai (Judith)

[sequoiaranger]

I had the cutting tool in my hand, so....

I worked a little on my "enlarged Judy" Japanese dive bomber using the Ryusei as a base. Hardly, after what I have done to it!

I sliced about 1/16th inch off the Ryusei fuselage down the middle to make it narrower to better mate up with the Judy nose. The Judy nose itself has been cut off a bit and an angle-cut piece of widened P-40 nose added to fill the space. A larger 3-blade prop is being used. The Ryusei's fuselage has been cut to remove the mid-wing. The low-wing-and-fuselage of a Northrop N3B had to be cut out, the lower wing center section cut down a bit, and the wings sheared off so that my cut-off Nanzan wings would fit. The tailplanes are Nanzan, too. The Judy canopy, a little too narrow on the original Suisei fuselage, is now just right on the skinnier fuselage, and just taped on for the photo. Only FIVE models got cut up to make this one!! 

OK---this is just a teaser.  What I'm REALLY working on is the Heinkel/Aichi 119 torpedo bomber, but I got the inspiration to "prove" my Suisei-Kai concept and now I have done that. Longer wingspan, longer and taller fuselage than the Judy. Still the same look, though. It now becomes a "Judith", to distinguish it from the Judy (and to "honor" the unpleasant mother/wife character on the "Two and a Half Men" TV show.)

I wanted to get this thread started, and I will let it sink down the message board but resurrect it when the time comes.

[John Howling Mouse]

Aw, a teaser...
Can't you work on both kits at the same time?

[sequoiaranger]

>Can't you work on both kits at the same time?<

Well, the Suisei-Kai and similarly-Judy-derived Yamagumo were supposed to be simultaneous projects. ADDING the He/Aichi 119 would fry my brain and workspace with THREE at once. Most likely I will dribble work on the two "Judy"s as a break from the He/Aichi 119, but my modeling time is limited, so one at a time is best.

[Allan]

Ranger, you must not let this one sink down the thread board. Instead, we expect regular progress reports cause this one looks like a winner.
Dark green over grey??
Allan in Canberra

[sequoiaranger]

>Ranger, we expect regular progress reports cause this one looks like a winner.<

The progress so far is a result of meticulous measuring and contemplating. It is a "proof of concept". The resultant model will be somewhat like my Jinpu-Kai extrapolation from the Shiden-Kai, except it looks as though this Suisei-Kai will be even MORE work in the PSR department. I am satisfied for the present that my measurements and concepts are viable, but the Aichi 119 is calling (wailing, actually,) for attention.

>Dark green over grey?<

Perhaps. I may "brother-and-sister" the Jinpu-Kai and Suisei-Kai by using similar camo schemes. Dunno. I like all my work to be different, though. The "standard" Judy schemes are so B-O-R-I-N-G, so I am not sure what I will do. I may do a "magenta" scheme for dusk/dawn attacks.

>you must not let this one sink down the thread board.<

It's inevitable, but...I kept my e-notification of your and others' replies, so I can access this thread instantly without looking for it. WHEN I make more progress I will bring it back up, rest assured!

[John Howling Mouse]

I guess many of us modelers are in the same boat.  Ever since we moved to our current home, I keep re-discovering old kits that I had completely forgotten about in the past couple of years.  As long as this one doesn't get "forgotten" too (and it sounds like you won't let that happen).

Very cool idea.   

[sideshowbob9]

Great idea! Not sure about the name Judith though. I don't suppose the name "Punch" would be a contender?

Loved your Jinpu-Kai & Shiden-Kai btw.

[sequoiaranger]

>Great idea! Not sure about the name Judith though. I don't suppose the name "Punch" would be a contender?<

When the Air Intelligence section started giving simple names to the complex Japanese designations, girl's names were given to bombers, and boy's names to fighters.  "Punch", unfortunately, is a boy's name, but I get the idea. The various model Zero's were given names like "Zeke 22" or "Zeke 52", and the clipped-wing version had its own moniker "Hamp". Even the Judy's had an add-on---the radial-engined derivative was named "Judy 33". I am sticking with the name "Judith", as I would be sure that the plane would be identified as a "Judy" until a crashed or abandoned one could be examined. I figure the name "Judith" would fit, as "Judy" is actually a diminutive name for Judith, and my new plane is larger but similar to the Judy. I don't think it is "worthy" of its own far different nickname, but a slight twist on the "parent" name does the trick (for me, anyway).

My Gallery here has a size comparison drawing. Ya gotta admit they look da*ned alike. 'Course, that's the point of the whif.

>Loved your Jinpu-Kai & Shiden-Kai btw. <

Thank you. It's my favorite Japanese build.

[sideshowbob9]

Ah! Didn't know about the boy/girl thing (though in hindsight it's fairly obvious  ).

She's your baby, you can call her what you like & I appreciate you explaining the rationale behind the decision. I just ...dislike the name Judith for personal reasons   

Back to the D4Y8, is there any particular reason you've stuck with the in-line engine as opposed to the radial of the D4Y3?

Also, regarding your C6Y1 Yamagumo, which looks cool btw, I'm curious why it is a single-seater, when the C6N has 3 seats?

Apologies for all the questions - I've only just got in to IJN aircraft.

[sequoiaranger]

>Apologies for all the questions - I've only just got in to IJN aircraft.<

No apologies needed. IJN aircraft/exploits are a favorite subject of mine. I'm not a "great expert" by any means, and of course an "expert" is just someone who might know a few things more than oneself does.

>Ah! Didn't know about the boy/girl thing (though in hindsight it's fairly obvious  Bang head).<

A great book on the subject, and still available, is Robert C. Mikesh's "Japanese Aircraft Code Names and Designations" ISBN: 0-88740-447-2  Funny that some aircraft that were not used in service were given code names, and some that did (e.g. Ki-100) were not.

>She's your baby, you can call her what you like & I appreciate you explaining the rationale behind the decision. I just ...dislike the name Judith for personal reasons<

Do I detect maybe a jilted lover a la Jon Cryer's character Allan Harper in 2 1/2 Men? 

>Back to the D4Y8, is there any particular reason you've stuck with the in-line engine as opposed to the radial of the D4Y3?<

Though the "backstory" (always an illustrative addition to a whif) is not yet fleshed out, in my world the license-built Japanese copies of the German Daimler-Benz engines are quality-made and viable. The actual copycat Aichi Atsuta (Navy) and Kawasaki Ha-40 (Army) series of engines were badly manufactured in real life (and even, I have heard rumored, deliberately defective in the German plans---that is, the Germans found their mistakes and corrected them, but did not pass that info on to those having a license to manufacture them), and when more, and more reliable, engines were needed, the Japanese cleverly substituted radials (Ki-100, D4Y3 Suisei)

I have always like the LOOK of the Suisei, but it was kind of puny for the job needed. It was FASTER than the predecessor D3A "Val", but really not more capable in the ordnance department (F'rinstance, the Curtiss SB2C Helldiver was more of a beast to fly than the SBD Dauntless it replaced, but the crews appreciated the increased bombload--2,000+ lbs as opposed to the SBD's 1200 lbs). That is, in 1943-45, the Japanese dive-bombing capability per plane was the same as at Pearl Harbor (overall capability was actually less, since overall numbers of carrier aircraft was down), whereas the US capability increased dramatically in both individual capability and overall numbers. Aichi's follow-on to the Suisei, the B7A Ryusei "Grace" had such a protracted development (the bane of many Japanese aircraft) that it never flew from carriers; a few examples flew from land bases. So I have sped things up a little. In my world, the German copy engines are fine, just not in great supply, so the regular-sized D4Y Suisei's used as TRAINERS for the Suisei-Kai's are equipped with a radial to spare the inline engines for the combat aircraft. Only when US forces approach the mainland of Japan are the D4Y3 (radial-engined Suisei's) thrown in to combat as Kamikazes.

>Also, regarding your C6Y1 Yamagumo, which looks cool btw, I'm curious why it is a single-seater, when the C6N has 3 seats?<

Again, I have always liked the LOOK of the Suisei and its fighter-like size. As you may know, the original Suisei's had some flutter problems when diving and were used as reece aircraft while the problems were worked out. These "dive bombers" could have been ready for Midway if the problems had not arose, but two (possibly three) examples were used at Midway aboard the Soryu for reconnaissance, and again a few examples used around the Solomons later. So I have pushed the timeline back to Pearl Harbor for first use, and "specialized" the reece function. You would be correct to propose that multi-personnel would be normal for a reece aircraft in the hopes that the more eyes  able to spot something the better. My "Yamagumo" would not be the initial scout aircraft for fleet work (used at Pearl because the position was already KNOWN), but rather a fast follow-up to assess battle damage and guide following attack aircraft to the right ships. The Yamagumo would hang around, and be able to hang around, because of its fast speed and immense (by the then standards) fuel capacity (the typical floatplane scout used by the IJN was slow and was easily picked off by fighter aircraft). The fast C6N ("Myrt") reconnaissance plane was more of a SUBSTITUTE for the floatplane scouts--that is, SOMETHING had to have speed enough to actually reach the American fleet without being intercepted and stay airborne long enough to report back to the Japanese commanders. In addition, the quick out-and-back flying time of my C6Y would enable a camera-equipped Yamagumo to return to the carrier to process film for assessment of the first attack for better attacks later.

So my Yamagumo build will be the "First Over Pearl Harbor" at dawn to assess and photograph the disposition of the fleet, then hustle back to the Kido Butai so Genda, et. al., can pour over the photos and assign targets based on current and accurate info. Not giving away anything, I hope, but my particular Yamagumo had its clear perspex over the cameras pitted by a small metal part thrown up just before take-off by the tire of a hangar-deck tractor (yes, in my world the Japanese carriers had tractors) that creates a "deck" on the photo of the old battleship Utah so that the Japanese think she is a carrier and thus include her in the attacks.

What will I think of next? 

[Taiidantomcat]

Looking great so far! 

[sideshowbob9]

Do I detect maybe a jilted lover a la Jon Cryer's character Allan Harper in 2 1/2 Men? 

Nah, just an ex-boss I would love to "run into"  . The jilted lover is a little lower in the alphabet 

Thanks for the clarification. I am really starting to like the C6Y1 concept. Why develop a new aircraft when you can diversify an existing one?

Oh and what have you got against the poor old Utah? 

[sequoiaranger]

>Thanks for the clarification. I am really starting to like the C6Y1 concept. Why develop a new aircraft when you can diversify an existing one?<

Well, in my timeline the Yamagumo came FIRST, as a new aircraft type. The IJN liked it, and needed a replacement for the D3Y, so made the Yamagumo into the "standard" two-place D4Y dive bomber. THEN operational dissatisfaction with THAT lead to the larger Suisei-Kai. THEN the IJN gave the Suisei-Kai a makeover to turn it into a combined torpedo bomber and dive bomber, and voila--the B7A Ryusei.

>Oh and what have you got against the poor old Utah?<

As you may know, several torpedoes and bombs were WASTED on the mere target-ship Utah that could have been better used on a "real" warship. I have heard various explanations, among them that some pilots THOUGHT they saw a deck on it, and it was a big ship in the usual carrier berth, etc. so attacked it. Supposedly, too, the IJN KNEW the Utah was a de-commissioned warship. So **WHY** attack it? Anyway, "we" are lucky they did, sparing some poor USN ship the ordnance that the Utah absorbed.  So at least with my Yamagumo, there is SOME rationale for attacking it!

I had an "uncle" (read mom's boyfriend) who was on the cruiser USS Raleigh right near the Utah when she was attacked. My real grandfather was on the USS Tennessee and a bomb explosion caught the back of his shirt on fire, so he dove off the ship into Pearl Harbor to extinguish it. A step-father was aboard the USS Maryland (largely untouched), so I have Pearl Harbor connections.

[sideshowbob9]

I'm afraid my knowledge was limited to what happened to the Arizona and the Nevada taking a stroll to the beach. Thanks for the info.

As I said, I'm rather new to modelling the IJN but I find it funny that the three Japanese aircraft you are using to create the D4Y8 (Nanzan, Suisei & Ryusei) are the three aircraft I've bought so far! So as you can understand, I'm interested in seeing how this project unfolds.

[sequoiaranger]

>I'm afraid my knowledge was limited to what happened to the Arizona and the Nevada taking a stroll to the beach. Thanks for the info.<

Although the Nevada "strolled to the beach" in her famous sortie to Hospital Point (the only Pearl Harbor battleship to get underway during the attack), she was raised, rebuilt and wreaked her vengeance later in the war. Of the nine battleships in Pearl Harbor that day, Arizona and Utah were the only battleships truly "sunk" and unrecoverable.

>As I said, I'm rather new to modelling the IJN but I find it funny that the three Japanese aircraft you are using to create the D4Y8 (Nanzan, Suisei & Ryusei) are the three aircraft I've bought so far! So as you can understand, I'm interested in seeing how this project unfolds.<

Aha!

All of them are Aichi products, too! In fact, if I had not purged my huge collection of aircraft models last summer, I would have used the Aichi E13A "Jake" floatplane for the low-wing-and-fuselage-sides for the Suisei-Kai, making it an Aichi Sweep! The P-40 part is minuscule and incidental---I actually could have used an LS "Judy" for the same part! The Northrop N3PB I used for the low wing happened to be a leftover I had put in an odd place and thus escaped the purge.

So you have an excellent collection there to work with!

The plane which "inspired" me to build this D4Y8 is a Nanzan build-up, here:

http://www.ipmslondon.ca/old%20site/ipmslondon.tripod.com/aircraftreviews/id28.html

Cheers!