F-104 Starfighter

[rallymodeller]

A quick-change nose section is an interesting idea. Combined with the easily-accessible electronics bay behind the cockpit, one could imagine a variety of different noses that could be "plugged in" and the associated electronics set up as LRUs in the bay, with common wiring for all. There could be a recon nose like yours, one like the LOROP Taiwanese nose, an attack nose with LRMTS and so forth, and several different radar noses like interceptor (standard NASARR or Cyrano), ground attack (the Canadian version of NASARR that had no air-to-air capability) and maritime strike (Agave)...

Gives new meaning to the idea of "multimission".

[Burncycle]

Sorry to revive the thread, I was going to start another but since we already have an F-104 topic.

What about the F404 engine for the starfighter?

The F404 is shorter than the J79, has a smaller diameter, and weighs almost 1,600 pounds less. It has more dry thrust and afterburning thrust than the early and mid J79 design evolutions (though not the late ones) and a TW ratio of almost 8:1 versus 4.6:1.  

I have no idea how they compare reliability and maintenance wise though... but would there be a noticeable improvement in performance?

Maybe if (in our whatif universe) they were flying into the 90's, the engine could further be upgraded to the F414 (though I'd imagine the intakes would need to be redesigned).

[pyro-manic]

Also look at the PW1120 - it was meant to be a drop-in replacement for the J79 in the Phantom, so it would certainly fit.

[Burncycle]

Even better, didn't know about that one

[James]

Always thought the Starfighter was a prime candidate for a twin fuselage – like the Vickers type 582.

   

[Caveman]

so did the germans!

[PR19_Kit]

That'd be an F-208 then? 

[rickshaw]

That'd be an F-208 then? 

Nope, F-104Z! 

[Diamondback]

So, I'm concepting a WHIF...

What If the NF-104A and F-104N were further developed into an astronaut-trainer, like a reusable version of a Mercury-Redstone, but still having some vestigial combat capability? And What If it were a two-seater version? And What If a prototype were built from selected parts cherrypicked from the best Starfighter variants around the world and built by an eccentric genius for his personal use, with as many improvements as say 2005-2010 rebuild-date technology could offer, while still keeping as much of the original airframe as possible other than reconstructing it out of lighter, stronger and more heat-resistant materials?

Something like a TF-104G front-half and tailgroup mated to an ASA-M rear, with a new booster/thruster pod on each wing based on the old tiptanks, and an F414 shoved up its backside? Maybe combine the ASA-M and original ventral fins like on the CL-901 prototype?

By "vestigial combat capability", I mean just enough to defend itself, not go looking for trouble--its mission is to get its two occupants up to 125,000 feet and safely back to the ground, but I figure at least a couple AIM-9X or IRIS-T, maybe keep the internal gun.

[Spey_Phantom]

BUMP:

Working on an RAF F-4M Phantom FGR.2, i found inspiration for another whiff build.

i was thinking, since the RAF installed the RR Spey 202 engines of the F-4, is it possible to do the same thing on the F-104 (replacing the j-79).
and if so, would the Starfighters fuselage need any modification?

[sandiego89]

i was thinking, since the RAF installed the RR Spey 202 engines of the F-4, is it possible to do the same thing on the F-104 (replacing the j-79).
and if so, would the Starfighters fuselage need any modification?

I would say yes to fuselage modifications.  The Spey is wider by about 4.6 inches, which may not sound like a lot, but the F-104 did not have inches to spare.  Also the Spey sucks more air, so you may need larger intakes.  Just like the UK version of the Phantom which needed significant mods to fit the Spey, which detractors labelled as the slowest, most expensive Phantom, but it had impressive low level performance/thrust which was desired for the Fleet Air Arm operating off carriers smaller than the US carriers. Engine weight and length are less of factors.

So realistically I would think a fatter fuselage and intakes would be needed for a Spey F-104- which may impact overall aircraft performance quite a bit- not sure it would be worth it for a modest increase in thrust, but if it fits your backstory of needing a UK engine it could be a good WHIF.  Or you could ignore and declare close enough for a WHIF model and keep the standard fuselage and intakes for a WHIF. 

[Captain Canada]

Sounds like a plan Nils ! Not sure you would need any mods at 72nd or 144th scale, as it would already be close enough. The fuselage widening could be lied about, as the intake size. But having two intakes and a single engine might be enough ? Would defo look cool with a new burner can and maybe a fin top RWR 

[Spey_Phantom]

Cap, that a great idea to add the RWR on the tail.

as for the intake, i can remove the devider cone, allowing more air to enter the inlet.
the idea came to me while building a Phantom, thinking if the EE Lightning got cancelled, would the UK not consider an F-104K.
aside from the RR Spey engines, i was thinking maybe adding a Firestreak or RedTop AAM as its main armament.

[Captain Canada]

Love it Nils ! Excellent idea. The problem is, you'd have to build at least 2, one camo and one gray 

[Mossie]

From Secret Projects, CL-1195.  -1 has a J79-GE-19 like the F-104S, -2 has a Spey (R.Sp-5R is a RB.168-25R Spey as used in the F-4M), both within the same airframe.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,966.15.html

The Model CL-1195 designs were started in 1969 for an export air-superiority fighter based on the "S". Primary market was Europe, to counter single-site version of the Panavia MRCA. First two iterations -1 and -2 used same "S" fuselage coupled with a larger wing and a strenghtened structure to support the higher loads coming from the larger wing itself. -1 used a GE J-79-19, the -2 a RR engine. The second one had better performance overall. Basic armament for air superiority were an internal M-61 and four Sidewinder, with two wingtip tanks,  2 X 220 gals.  The plane sported a total of eleven stations for external charges: one centerline,

So you might be able to get away with it in the standard airframe, it's up to you if you add the bigger wing of the CL-1195-2 or leave it the same.  There where other CL-1195 variants with more changes.