Ruhrstahl X-4

[Spey_Phantom]

this weapon was developed in Germany in World War 2, but i was just wondering, if it had been operational in time (fitted on the Me262 or FW190) could it have been a succesfull weapon 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhrstahl_X-4

[jcf]

this weapon was developed in Germany in World War 2, but i was just wondering, if it had been operational in time (fitted on the Me262 or FW190) could it have been a succesfull weapon 

Only in daylight against un-escorted bombers, not a likely situation over Germany in the period.

[Spey_Phantom]

i see, but if it had the time to be further developed (possibly fitted onto a night fighter like the Me410 or FW152) and guided by radar and radio signals by a weapons operator, i think it would be quite potent.

perhaps in a few years, they would have been equiped with some kind of early heat seaking warhead, like the AIM-9/B had 

BUMP  : i got it, i'll scratchbuild a version and fit it onto a FW Flitzer or Me1111

[cthulhu77]

Read "My Tank is Fight" by Parsons.

   the X-4 and the x-7 had a huge amount of where-withal  , truly amazing weapons. 

[NARSES2]

Well the British had developed a semi active radar guided AA "missile" in WWII. Development of the Artemis stopped however when the range of the 3"RP being used became insufficient because of the heavier defensive weapons fitted to bomber aircraft.

Really do need to finish my Vickers 432 and load her with a couple of Artemis type missiles but based on the US 5" RP

[philp]

Hmmm,
Invisioning X-4 armed F-86s in Korea.

[dy031101]

When did the development for electro-optics start?

Would it have been early enough to benefit the X-4 if the weapon survives the War or the War went on into 1946 and beyond?

[jcf]

The wire-guided X-4 had a very limited attack range (1.5 to 3.5 km at the same altitude as the target) and was not a fighter-vs-fighter weapon.

The Germans were working on other air-to-air missiles, the Hs 117 H (range 60 to 10 km, up to 5,000 m above target) used line-of-sight radio control and they were working on a homing system. The Hs 298 (range .5 to 2.5 km, up to 1,000 m below or 2,000 m above target) also used line-of-sight radio control, however there were plans to equip it with a wire-link like that used on the X-4.

All were basically line-of-sight daylight weapons (as were, realistically, all A-to-A missiles until many years after WWII), and as such were not suitable for nightfighters, regardless of what Dragon shows on the box of their P.1101 Nachtjager. 

The main problem with changing the guidance system on the X-4 is that it was a small missile and, as shown by the cutaway, the BMW engine took up most of the interior. To add radio-control and semi-active radar homing (ala the Ryan Firebird, http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/aam-a-1.html) the airframe would, a the least, have to be lengthened.

The simple truth is that in terms of electronics the Germans were behind the UK and US.

Eelctro-optical work goes back well before the war and an IR homing device was under bench-test at the end and,
according to some sources, was intended for the Enzian missile.

Jon

[dy031101]

The simple truth is that in terms of electronics the Germans were behind the UK and US.

The only advantage the X-4 really had is that it is simple, partially (just partially) made of non-strategic materials, and capable of being built/assembled by unskilled labours......

But that also made me wonder what if the Germans had time to, as you said, properly enlarge the missile for a better guidance head and more fuel......

[cthulhu77]

...and to be fair, if they were so far behind, why did we talent scout the living hell out of the ranks there, once they were occupied?

[dy031101]

...and to be fair, if they were so far behind, why did we talent scout the living hell out of the ranks there, once they were occupied?

Well the Germans were ahead in terms of implementations of rockets and jets as means of propulsion......

But, for example, Germany never developed blind-fire-capable FCS like the US did, and the company that built the anti-aircraft FCS computer for the Bismarck said that "only a dozen" of their 20,000 employees were capable of assembling this machine......

[jcf]

...and to be fair, if they were so far behind, why did we talent scout the living hell out of the ranks there, once they were occupied?

When speaking in terms of electronics Greg, the Allies had an advantage in most categories.
True the Germans were more advanced in the practical application of tactical systems like IR
sights, however that is one of the few areas.

The Allies were also more advanced in many areas of materials sciences and technology, not to forget nuclear physics.  

The truth is that nobody was really 'years ahead' of anybody else, with the major combatants starting and
ending the war on an approximate par in terms of general technological level. Any perceived advantage in
one area was usually balanced by an inferiority in another.

Jon

[frank2056]

Ray Corridon has his very own X-4!. He basically rescued it from a museum that was going to throw it away.

[buzzbomb]

this is where I can do a "here's one I prepared earlier"

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,24974.0.html

Notwithstanding the facts of inadequacies detailed above, which I agree with by the way.. it still looks cool
Hasegawa of Fujimi (forget which) include these beasties in their 1/72 ME1101 kit (IIRC.. he says a little worried)

[jcf]

this is where I can do a "here's one I prepared earlier"

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,24974.0.html

Notwithstanding the facts of inadequacies detailed above, which I agree with by the way.. it still looks cool
Hasegawa of Fujimi (forget which) include these beasties in their 1/72 ME1101 kit (IIRC.. he says a little worried)

DML-Dragon.