Alenia Aermacchi M-346

[dy031101]

I'll start this thread with a possible what-if and/or future history:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2009/08/alenia-eyes-son-of-yak-for-usa.html

Yup, this scenario pits the M-346 (a jet plane) against the turboprop-powered types that we've all known and loved.

[B777LR]

To say the M-346 is the son of a Yak, you would also have to say the Yak is the son of an Alenia Aermacchi. And if the M-346 is an updated Yak-130, it is also an updated M-346. And it is NOT Soviet, it was designed long after the Soviet Union. 

[dy031101]

To say the M-346 is the son of a Yak, you would also have to say the Yak is the son of an Alenia Aermacchi. And if the M-346 is an updated Yak-130, it is also an updated M-346. And it is NOT Soviet, it was designed long after the Soviet Union. 

I'm not endorsing the "son of a Yak" statement, either, thinking that the first Yak-130 served as the common basis for the modern day Yak-130 and M-346......?

[McGreig]

To say the M-346 is the son of a Yak, you would also have to say the Yak is the son of an Alenia Aermacchi. And if the M-346 is an updated Yak-130, it is also an updated M-346. And it is NOT Soviet, it was designed long after the Soviet Union. 

Eh??

Comrade! He doesn't say that the aircraft is Soviet but that it's "the descendant of Soviet aeronautical skills", which seems absolutely correct - the Soviet Union didn't collapse until 1991 and the Yak-130 was designed in response to a Soviet Air Force requirement issued in the late Eighties by a design team created and trained in the Soviet Union.

Also, what is the problem with "Son of Yak"? The Yak-130 was designed by Yak before the partnership was struck with Aermacchi in 1994 (the first prototype left the assembly shop in November 1994) and, as the article says, the M-346 is essentially a westernised and updated version of the Yak-130.

And, Comrade, surely it is better to be son of Yak, which produced a major series of war winning fighters than son of Macchi which, errmm, didn't - - -

[NARSES2]

[And, Comrade, surely it is better to be son of Yak, which produced a major series of war winning fighters than son of Macchi which, errmm, didn't - - -

Well I've heard of "Son's of Camels" before but never the "Son of a Yak" - have to remember that one next time I'm in Mongolia 

[jcf]

And, Comrade, surely it is better to be son of Yak, which produced a major series of war winning fighters than son of Macchi which, errmm, didn't - - -

Yet Macchi produced some of the loveliest aircraft ever, something that cannot be said about Yakovlev. 

[thedarkmaster]

i like the Yak 130, in fact i like Yak's cant really say that about Macchi's 

[dy031101]

Few single-engine aircraft could be configured to carry as big a cannon as the Yak-9UT. 

[lancer]

Interesting thread. especially as I'm currently building a Yak 130 for this years SIG display.

[redstar72]

Yet Macchi produced some of the loveliest aircraft ever, something that cannot be said about Yakovlev. 

I also like Macchi MC-202/205, they were beautiful-looking fighters, but... Yak-9U is the most beautiful!



It's my IMHO.
Really, it's not a good theme for a discussion. For example, I think that Skyraider and Ar 240 were ugly, but I know people who love them.

Few single-engine aircraft could be configured to carry as big a cannon as the Yak-9UT. 

I think you meant Yak-9K? It was armed with 45-mm Nudelman-Suranov NS-45 cannon.


http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9k.html

Yak-9UT, the Yak-9U version (I consider Yak-9 and Yak-9U as two different aircraft), also could be armed with it - but only as a prototype. Serial aircraft carried one 23-mm and two 20-mm cannons:
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9ut.html

[redstar72]

If anybody need good Yak-130 drawings (to build a model, or as blanks for profiles), you can get them here:
http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw2/yak130aiv.html

[jcf]

Yet Macchi produced some of the loveliest aircraft ever, something that cannot be said about Yakovlev. 

Who said anything about Macchi fighters?
The racers folks, the racers.

[dy031101]

I think you meant Yak-9K? It was armed with 45-mm Nudelman-Suranov NS-45 cannon.

Yak-9UT, the Yak-9U version (I consider Yak-9 and Yak-9U as two different aircraft), also could be armed with it - but only as a prototype. Serial aircraft carried one 23-mm and two 20-mm cannons:
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak9ut.html

I stand corrected.

Alright, let's not get too carried away in the past glory now.  

Hum...... wouldn't the M-346 be more of a high-performance aircraft compared to other turboprop-powered contestants?

I found that loitering time, observation, rough field capabilities, and operation under harsh environments are qualities difficult to associate with a Western jet aircraft (despite the ancestrial root of the M-346)......

Do correct me if I'm wrong though.

[B777LR]

Hum...... wouldn't the M-346 be more of a high-performance aircraft compared to other turboprop-powered contestants?

I found that loitering time, observation, rough field capabilities, and operation under harsh environments are qualities difficult to associate with a Western jet aircraft (despite the ancestrial root of the M-346)......

Do correct me if I'm wrong though.

The M-346/Yak-130 is more capable than the BAe Hawk, and they have 2 engines. The M-346 is even capable of supersonic flight. They do the same job though, and the Yak-130/M-346 were designed with the specific purpose of being able to model the handlings of most modern aircraft, including Tucanos, EF2000s and Raptors.

[McGreig]

The M-346/Yak-130 is more capable than the BAe Hawk

Hmm, I'm not so sure of that - they seem pretty evenly matched. The maximum speeds are similar (1,028 km/h Hawk 128, 1,050Km/h Production Yak-130), the Hawk has a longer range (2,520km as opposed to 2,000km) and they both carry 3,000kg of stores (although the Yak has more pylons). The Yak has two engines but, in a small aircraft with the engines relatively close to each other, does a twin have a significant survival/safety advantage?

Admittedly, the Hawk is conceptually 20 years older, but it as undergone continuous development. The Yak was originally designed as a pure trainer aimed at training pilots for fourth and fifth generation fighters and it has had to undergo considerable redesign to meet the current Russian requirement for a combined trainer and light combat aircraft.

More interestingly, Yefim Gordon's "OKB Yak" has some brief details (but no pictures) of projected four-seat versions of the Yak-130 for crew training and shipboard COD and of a projected single seat light attack aircraft and a UAV.

I'm tempted by the single seat version but can't decide whether to go for a "Hawk-200" look or keep the existing contours and simply plate over the rear canopy.