1/700th scale HMS Habakkuk WIP (aka Project Habakkuk)

[seadude]

Hello, I'm new here.  I'm not really sure where to put this topic, but I thought maybe this forum might be ok. If it's in the wrong area, then a Moderator can move it to the appropriate place.

Anyway, I'm currently in the construction process of creating a 1/700 scale Habbakuk aircraft carrier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk
https://www.facebook.com/History-Research-of-Project-Habakkuk-215046165570785/

........for a November model contest. I'm not going to repost all the details here, but rather leave a link to a thread on another forum where I am describing the construction:
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=43426
I need advice, comments, hints, tips, etc. on the following:
1. What color(s) should I paint the Habbakuk? I'm having a very difficult time on this issue as I've already described in that thread. 
2. Any other advice about construction, etc. is greatly appreciated. I'll do my best to answer any questions that anyone has.

[cthulhu77]

There is an entire chapter devoted to that ship in " My Tank is Fight" by Zack Parsons.  I would imagine that battleship gray would be the colour to use, as the ice blocks would have been covered with steel painted plate. I doubt they would have used any camouflage, as the size would make it fairly visible no matter what.

Great idea !  Shoot up some pics here, too !

     Greg

[cthulhu77]

...and yes, it actually was supposed to be an USN project...the Brits couldn't afford it. They didn't even come up with the mixture of ice and wood pulp.

[seadude]

as the ice blocks would have been covered with steel painted plate.

Uh, actually.......no. Steel was in short supply near the end of WWII. According to the Wikipedia link I mentioned in that thread as well as other references, I suspect the "outer skin" on the outside hull of the ship would have been plywood/fibreboard to help protect the pykrete from melting and to insulate it, etc.
But here's the thing: Would it really be necessary to paint the main hull even when the ship probably wouldn't last more than a year or two? It would just melt after a reasonable time anyway. Painting the main hull would have been a drain on WWII resources. Even if the upper portion above the boot topping was painted gray, Would there really be a need to paint the lower hull below the boot topping? And what about gun or bomb damage? Why paint the hull if it'll get hit?

[cthulhu77]

From what I have read, the steel was actually going to be used on the upper hull, and a thin sheeting on the sides. You can't really land bombers on plywood too safely. As far as the lower sides, aluminium would have been used, or the pykrete would just fade away all the sooner. I do know the mock up involved quite a lot of steel framing and sheeting.

Since it was such a farcical project, I don't think anyone can cast rocks at your ice house, so to speak.

[Sauragnmon]

Welcome over to the madhouse Seadude!

As to the ice, I still stand by the point, that consider the size of the pykrete chunks that were being used.  Consider also that the mockup model that was done, was still very well intact into the next summer.  The wood mixture in the pykrete actually does a very good job of two things - it increases the resilience of the ice to the point a small block was Shot, to no net effect on behalf of the block.  Comparatively, a block of ice similarly shot, would have shattered.

Probably, I agree, a steel deck would have been laid, or similarly a wooden deck, likely not plywood, but something a bit more durable, as per the normal flight decks used on any other standard aircraft carrier - they would have been reinforced by the bulkheads and other structure beneath the wooden deck in principle.

Between refrigeration units running to keep the pykrete cold, and insulation, not to mention the sheer density and quantity, I Seriously question the thought that the hull would have lasted only a year or two.

Painting the hull would be the purpose of making it somewhat harder to find, in truth.  Of course, it is still very much a relative concept, as the ship's gonna be found, just by sheer size, but it's better than a kick in the head with a frozen boot.

[Mossie]

I like this idea!  I breifly toyed with the idea of building Habbakuk in 1/1200 but the idea waned.  I was surprised to find that there where a lot of 1/1200 aircraft available & I might have been able to build it from a modified Noahs Ark kit!  Good look doing it in 1/700, it's going to be an eyecatcher!

I'm with Greg, I thought Habbakuk was to be clad in steel.  I'll have a look in 'My Tank is Fight' & I'll get back to you later.  Adding a bit more to Gregs comment, HMS Habbakuk did start off life as a British project, but then was passed on to the US when it realised just how much it would have cost & the amount of effort it would take.  Remeber, it started life as a what was believed to be a realatively simple idea of powering an ice berg, the balooned from there.

I suppose it doesn't matter much how you paint it.  It could have been left bare due to the effort.  The trouble with unbuilt projects is (as you're finding out!) that there are many unanswered questions.  Go with your gut feeling, if you feel it was unpainted wood & there's no evidence to the contrary, go for it.  Everyone has their opinion & some may have more credence than others, but nobody's 'right', especially when it goes for a project like this.

[seadude]

Good look doing it in 1/700, it's going to be an eyecatcher!

Indeed! I had a friend do some measurements for me a few weeks ago and at 1/700 scale, the main hull that he's making out of wood will be approx. 34" long x 5 1/2" wide x 3 1/2" tall (not including superstructure). A real Habbakuk would have been 2000 FT. long x 300 FT. wide x 200 FT. tall.
No way in hell anybody's gonna miss my model sitting on the table at the November contest!  LOL! In fact, the person who's making the main hull for me is supposed to be delivering it to me today. I'll try to have pics later tonight after I get home from running errands.

I suppose it doesn't matter much how you paint it.  It could have been left bare due to the effort.  The trouble with unbuilt projects is (as you're finding out!) that there are many unanswered questions.  Go with your gut feeling, if you feel it was unpainted wood & there's no evidence to the contrary, go for it.  Everyone has their opinion & some may have more credence than others, but nobody's 'right', especially when it goes for a project like this.

True. Quite true. Right now, I'm still figuring things out and making decisions. When I do start painting, I'm possibly thinking of the following:
* Superstructure, guns, masts, etc.: Haze Gray
* Main hull below the boot topping: No painting. Why paint something that's below the waterline and will eventually melt over a period of time, and also that nobody can see?
* Possibly paint a black boot topping stripe.
* Main hull above boot topping: Haze Gray
* Main flight deck color: Not sure yet?

One other thing I am curious about. I've heard rumors that there was a Habbakuk model at the 2000 (Or was it 2001/2002?) IPMS Dallas Nats.? But I can not find pics of it anywhere on the Net. Can anybody help in my search for this?

[cthulhu77]

Neat stuff !  I know that the insides were going to be lined with cork if the project ever made it out of the bay, didn't know about the cladding though.

One massive project !   

[seadude]

And now for pics!   I had a friend make the entire Habbakuk main hull for me out of wood since: a) I would've had no idea how to do it myself and don't have the time, supplies, or proper tools, and b) He's a very skilled woodworker.   Before heading out to a movie today, he dropped the hull off at my apt.

CLICK ANY THUMBNAIL PICS TO VIEW LARGER IMAGES.

To make the wood hull, I used these plans which were found in the following book:
http://www.amazon.com/J-D-Bernal-Sage-Science/dp/0198515448/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248128590&sr=1-1
Blueprint plans:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/icyhusky/HMS%20Habakkuk%20model%20project/overlord1n.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/icyhusky/HMS%20Habakkuk%20model%20project/overlord2.jpg

Remember, this Habbakuk model I'm building is 1/700 scale. Here's some pics of a 1/700 Nimitz AC hull and a Iowa battleship hull next to the wood Habbakuk hull for scale:


In these two pics, you can see two WWII AC decks end to end as well as next to each other compared to the size of the Habbakuk. Also for scale is the bridge superstructure as well as a small F-18 for scale purposes::



Deck of a Nimitz AC compared to the deck of the Habbakuk:



As I've mentioned before, this model is roughly 34" long x 5 1/2" wide x 3 1/2" tall:



Underside of the bow:



At the stern of the hull:



Bottom of the hull:



Looking down the flight deck:



I also had my friend "notch" (for lack of a better term) both ends of the hull and take off about 1/4". The reason for this was to possibly add some armament at both ends to defend the ends of the ship much the same way some WWII US aircraft carriers had guns at the bow and the stern.



Size comparison of my 1/350 USS Montana battleship compared to the 1/700 scale wood hull for the Habakkuk.

[Sauragnmon]

not a bad idea to have the notched deck - it's not as if there isn't PLENTY of strip to take off just about anything you want with a deck that big.  Crap, you could run a few parallel games of Football on that deck!

[Mossie]

Wow, s'BIG!!!  Knowing the dimensions is one thing, but seeing it really brings it into perspective.  Any display would benefit from having a couple of escourts or supply vessels along side, if you've got space!

The notched deck seems natural.  Gutsy project you've got going, looking forward to seeing it progress.

[cthulhu77]

There is a pretty good line drawing in My Tank is Fight, and it does show a notched front, notched back with a landing platform over the gun emplacements.

[seadude]

There's also another problem I'm having with this ship. Around the circumference of the ship below the waterline is supposed to be about 24-26 turboelectric propulsion pods as shown in the middle of this pic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/icyhusky/HMS%20Habakkuk%20model%20project/hab13.jpg
I haven't got the skills or experience to cast a bunch of stuff in resin to make so many, nor do I have the money to buy any special aftermarket accessories or other supplies to build them. I'm at a loss as to what to do?   Any thoughts?

[Sauragnmon]

 I would have waterlined it and skipped that stage of development, save yourself the time, effort, and consideration with regards to the pods.