Dr. Gatling's Infernal Device ...

jcf · August 21, 2009, 08:42:54 AM

As there seems to be steady interest in the Gatling gun I'm stating a thread on subject in which I will post
drawings and info related to said device.

First up early electrified variants.

The November 15, 1890 issue of Scientific American contained an article on the Crocker-Wheeler Co.'s
development for the US Navy. Article and illustration scanned from The Gatling Gun, Paul Wahl and Don
Toppel (1965), ARCO Publishing edition 1978.

Dr. Gatling's Patent #502,185 for an integral electric drive version:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=Sy1EAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&dq=502%2C185&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=502,185&f=false

More to come.

jcf · August 21, 2009, 08:59:15 AM

Camel Gatling.

A popular illustration from the late-19th century, however there is no evidence that the gun was ever used in such fashion.

Rather Camel Gun was the name attached to the short-barreled Model 1874 for marketing purposes.

Jon

Weaver · August 21, 2009, 01:08:48 PM

Excellent idea!

I was thinking of doing the same myself.

A related device, the Hotchkiss 37mm Revolver cannon. In widespread use before WWI (28 countries) yet almost forgotten now. It's very easy to imagine someone contemplating the problems of naval air defence in the 1930s looking thoughtfully at one of these and wondering what it'd be like with higher-velocity ammo....

jcf · August 21, 2009, 01:15:33 PM

Yep the good 'ol Hotchkiss.
A natural for hydraulic motor power in a shipboard setting.

GTX · August 21, 2009, 01:21:27 PM

What's the largest calibre Gattling type gun - anyone know? I know I have seen 37mm and 40mm versions but am not aware of anything larger.

Regards,

Greg

Sauragnmon · August 21, 2009, 01:24:51 PM

Hotchkiss 37... I could see the Germans adapting it to a gas operation, as the Germans were leading the concept there - the MG-34/42 as proof, and putting it on a naval mounting.

I think you're about on the money for the largest calibers, Greg - I don't think there's been anything bigger than a 40 tested, unless maybe by some fluke a 57, but not likely.

Weaver · August 21, 2009, 01:36:33 PM

Quote from: Sauragnmon on August 21, 2009, 01:24:51 PM
Hotchkiss 37... I could see the Germans adapting it to a gas operation, as the Germans were leading the concept there - the MG-34/42 as proof, and putting it on a naval mounting.

I think you're about on the money for the largest calibers, Greg - I don't think there's been anything bigger than a 40 tested, unless maybe by some fluke a 57, but not likely.

The MG-34/42 were recoil operated.

The original pom-pom gun (note that many other 37mm automatic guns got christened "pom pom" afterwards) was essentially a scaled-up Maxim gun firing the Hotchkiss ammo from a belt. I've often though that one of these would be a good weapon for an inter-wars-style infantry tank.

Sauragnmon · August 21, 2009, 01:42:38 PM

Then a recoil-operated version, similarly not unthinkable in truth. I know the Germans were quick to the gas operated automatic feed somewhere along the way...

chrisonord · August 21, 2009, 01:56:11 PM

The Swiss could have developed a clock work version of the gattling, the key would have to be pretty substantial though

the ammo loader would have to be a key man also.

Chris.

andyreb3 · August 21, 2009, 02:13:53 PM

You haven't to use the Swiss made gun the opposing force would laugh themselves into surrender, especially when they see someone winding it up like a clock work mouse, One question though where would you put the cucukoo bird so that he comes out every quarter hour?

Jeffry Fontaine · August 21, 2009, 06:08:17 PM

Quote from: GTX on August 21, 2009, 01:21:27 PMWhat's the largest calibre Gatling type gun - anyone know? I know I have seen 37mm and 40mm versions but am not aware of anything larger.

The largest calibre Gatling type weapon developed in the United States was the 37mm gun used on the T249 Vigilante self-propelled anti-aircraft gun system. This was a six barrel weapon mounted on a modified M113 hull. The prototype T249 is on display at the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum which was located at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Maryland and is now being relocated to Fort Lee, Virginia.

kitnut617 · August 21, 2009, 07:27:51 PM

One of my project I have on the boil is a Quad Tilt Rotor, more specifically the gunship variant. My thinking is the QTR could be design from the start with this version in mind so could be purpose built instead of an after-thought. Gatling guns would be my main armament for this aircraft and I was thinking 40mm and 20mm guns, but if 37mm was/is the biggest tested I'll go with that. My thinking is that the present gunships are/can be predictable, C-130's are particularly noisy up until they pass you, then you have quite a good idea where they are, and as they have to circle in a counter-clockwise circuit there's a good chance of avoiding them. My idea is that at first the gunship needs to surprise the target so a head-on attack would be preferable, which the present day gunships can't do, so my gunship will have a turret on each corner of the u/c sponson with one 40mm/37mm and one 20mm set above it in each turret. These turret would have a sweep of about 110 degrees with the front ones being able to point straight forward and the rear ones straight backwards, the turrets would be in both sponsons so the aircraft could circle in either direction. I think a second of 40mm/37mm fire could be similar to the cannon shot in effect. The ammo could be mounted in drums and on pallets for quick turn around and positioned on the centerline of the aircraft, being unloaded and reloaded through the rear ramp door. Alternatively, the ammo could be stored in the sponsons and accessed from the outside when re-loading.

jcf · August 21, 2009, 07:32:35 PM

Just for the record the Russian rotary cannon are gas-operated and a 37 to 40mm version would likely be too large
to be gas-operated, simply for reasons of physics. The 30mm GSh-6-30A was pretty much at the limits of relatively
modern technology and certainly beyond the reach of early-20th century materials tech.
From Tony Williams site:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/GSh-6-30.htm

His book Rapid Fire is a great addition to the library of anyone interested in automatic 'cannon' and heavy machine guns,
my copy is well-thumbed.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/rfweb.htm

47mm is generally agreed to have been the largest Hotchkiss.

The big Gatling was a 1-inch bore, available in ten and six barrel models.
Two types of ammunition were supplied, a single 1-inch bullet(@8 ounces) or, preferred, a canister round containing sixteen .44 cal balls.
A target reproduced in the Gatling book shows 691 hits from a 1-inch Gatling firing canister in 1 minute, 30 seconds at 150 yds.

A device to convert the Gatling to gas-operation was patented in 1894 by Carl J. Ehbets, the patent was assigned to Colt.

Jon

dragon · August 23, 2009, 11:10:48 PM

So if in the 20th century it was determined that the rate fire on a Gatling was determined by who turned the crank (i.e "What if we add an electric engine..."), why wasn't the gatling "steampunked"?

Sauragnmon · August 24, 2009, 05:42:30 AM

Because the problem then, as it would originally have been, would have been a steady supply of ammo to go with this new rate of fire, coupled with the skeptics griping about its accuracy - It would have been a monster of a weapon displayed for, say, Trench Warfare in WW1 though - a whole new era of meat grinderism.