Christie-suspension British Cruiser Tanks

[rickshaw]

Did the Avenger actually go into service?  The Wikipedia claimed that it did post-WWII, but other online references claimed that it never got past prototype stage.

My ref has 2 RA SP batteries being equiped post war plus it was used in training. Remained in service until the 1950's.

Interestingly, several end up with Eire's army. One apparently resides in their museum.

[NARSES2]

Interestingly, several end up with Eire's army. One apparently resides in their museum.

I knew they had Comet's didn't realise Avengers as well ?

[Rick Lowe]

How about the Crusader mounting the 5.5" Gun?
Like the Syrian T-34/122, an open mounting on a bare chassis.
Suitably bizarre/Whiffy.

Hubert Cance has a plan of this available in his range.

Cheers

Rick

[TsrJoe]

...part of the extensive lunar exploration proposal put forward by Hawker Siddely in the late 50's/early 60's, the vehicles are based upon what looks like Comet chassis ? (waw thats some launch capability!) 

cheers, joe

[NARSES2]

How about the Crusader mounting the 5.5" Gun?
Rick

I built one of those way back when as part of my master plan to model every peace of kit in the "Surrasian" army. Got lost when I got married many, many moons ago 

Memory says it was the Airfix kits, with a very simple superstructure made from plastic card fitted out with some bits and bobs from someones Priest. Painted in the standard Surrasian scheme of green with black patches 

[dy031101]

So this is the Avenger in photo......

Being said to have derived from the Cromwell, the track return rollers seem to suggest that it might have benefitted from the Comet, too.

Thinking of the mental note I made on stretched Cromwell chassis, I now wonder if something similar to the Olifant Mk.1 turret gun and armour could be done on it......

[dy031101]

Saturday night I managed to dig up one of my Imperial Armour game books and was reminded of how I was rather fascinated by the Imperial Guard Leman Russ tank with side weapon sponsons.  Then I started brainstorming on how to put such a design together based on real-world items.

Late-WWII infantry tanks seem to be a fitting starting point, having the hull side hatches like the Leman Russ (for accessing side sponsons).  Churchill's suspension didn't seem to lend itself well to half-decent mobility...... but perhaps the Excelsior tank, based on the Cromwell chassis and suspension, might.

Would I be able to, say, enlarge the hull side access tunnels to actually accommodate a close-in gunner's seat in each side?

[rickshaw]

As the silly Warhammer vehicles show, you end up with a ridiculously tall and wide vehicle.  From what I can gather about the Warhammer tanks, they really wouldn't stand much of a chance against a real, 21st century MBT or even an army equipped with ATGWs.

[dy031101]

As the silly Warhammer vehicles show, you end up with a ridiculously tall and wide vehicle.  From what I can gather about the Warhammer tanks, they really wouldn't stand much of a chance against a real, 21st century MBT or even an army equipped with ATGWs.

Yeah I can see that, too, which is why I want to base the imagination on some real-life tanks instead of just replacing fictitious ordnances with real-life ones, which I don't imagine to be possible...

... unless we, for example, use low-pressure 90mm in place of the Battle Cannon, but that'd be pretty wimpy for a tank that's supposed to be the MBT of the 41st millennium Mankind.  Or maybe that's what the story is meant to be...... that Mankind has to be reduced to such a state of wimpiness to warrant constant battles for their survival.

Nevertheless, there're some aspects of visual awesomeness to the Warhammer tanks.

[ChernayaAkula]

As the silly Warhammer vehicles show, you end up with a ridiculously tall and wide vehicle.  From what I can gather about the Warhammer tanks, they really wouldn't stand much of a chance against a real, 21st century MBT or even an army equipped with ATGWs.

It is a "fantasy" universe.
Warhammer 40k tanks don't have to fight 21st century MBTs. They fight aliens the size of houses, Orks with claws that are giant hydraulic-driven shears, worshippers of the Chaos gods with energy axes, other aliens in battle suits or ancient, millennia-old robotic skeletons. Some of their allied fighters are 8 feet tall and have 19 additional organs. Therefore, the rules of 20th or 21st century human warfare don't necessarily apply.

[dy031101]

Warhammer 40k tanks don't have to fight 21st century MBTs. They fight aliens the size of houses, Orks with claws that are giant hydraulic-driven shears, worshippers of the Chaos gods with energy axes, other aliens in battle suits or ancient, millennia-old robotic skeletons. Some of their allied fighters are 8 feet tall and have 19 additional organs. Therefore, the rules of 20th or 21st century human warfare don't necessarily apply.

In universe, anything impractical from our point of view can be excused away by the way of mysterious technologies (since technologies to the 40K Imperium of Man are a matter of archaeology, there is no need to explain their practicality).  Sure, every faction suffers from bad ergonomics (something we'd frown upon even for a weapon of war), and sure, perhaps we in the 21st century have more ways than one to kick the butts of all the above-mentioned aliens, abominations, and enhanced soldiers...... but then again, in the 40k universe, evolutions and technological achievements as we know them would all have died off, so there is no comparison.  

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To be fair though, I did start off trying to bring some of that visual awesomeness associated with the fantasy tanks to a real world basis (hence the mentioning of the Excelsior tank)...... maybe not the hull-mounted secondary AT gun, but perhaps the machinegun sponsons......

At any event, should I try to keep as much of the sponson gunner seats within the Excelsior's side hatch tunnels (enlarged as appropriate) to suppress the width growth, or am I doomed to have the entire gun sponsons installed outside of the sideskirts (like the ingame Leman Russ)?

[rickshaw]

As the silly Warhammer vehicles show, you end up with a ridiculously tall and wide vehicle.  From what I can gather about the Warhammer tanks, they really wouldn't stand much of a chance against a real, 21st century MBT or even an army equipped with ATGWs.

It is a "fantasy" universe.

Mmmm, I think had noticed that.  I just don't like it.  I expect my advanced alien races to be well, advanced not baroque wet dreams thought up by teenagers.

Warhammer 40k tanks don't have to fight 21st century MBTs. They fight aliens the size of houses, Orks with claws that are giant hydraulic-driven shears, worshippers of the Chaos gods with energy axes, other aliens in battle suits or ancient, millennia-old robotic skeletons. Some of their allied fighters are 8 feet tall and have 19 additional organs. Therefore, the rules of 20th or 21st century human warfare don't necessarily apply.

And what happens when they bump up against 21st century humans?

You know, I really, really pity the little green men if we ever seriously meet them, "out there".  They will be in for one hell of a shock. 

[Thorvic]

Except this thread is about Britsih cruiser tanks and not Warhammer 40K, so if you want a seperate thread on 40K please say so and will split the topic for you.

G

[Mossie]

...part of the extensive lunar exploration proposal put forward by Hawker Siddely in the late 50's/early 60's, the vehicles are based upon what looks like Comet chassis ? (waw thats some launch capability!) 

cheers, joe

I hadn't seen that HS explorer vehicle before, I love this kind of futuristics stuff.  Have you got any more info on that lunar exploration proposal?  Probably worth a new thread.

[dy031101]

From a thread originally opened for British Armoured Cars, but since the question is about a turret said to be from the Crusader Cruiser Tank:

The gunner and commander were provided with permament seats while the loader had a flip down one but normally stood during engagements.

Questions:


1. I've been under the impression that all tanks would have their loaders standing during combat; but would that be a safe assumption?


2. It is said that when Crusader tank design was upgunned with the 6-pounder, the turret crew was reduced to two due to the size of the new gun; yet when the turret with almost the same gun (re-bored for US 75mm ammo) was used for AEC Mk.III armoured cars, the loader was reinstated.  What was so special about the Crusader or did the British simply not care that much for a dedicated main gun loader at the time of 6-pounder Crusader's introduction?