Stuff That Never Made It - but why?

[Weaver]

Thanks Weaver,
Makes you think in the 'what-if' field. That if you were to build a retro Spitfire with all the safety features made from composite materials and carbon fibre. Who apart from the racing circuit would buy them?

A fair few private buyers too: remember when Yak produced that small series of hand-built "YaK-9"s (Allison engines IIRC). Got quite a few takers. A two seater, however "inauthentic" would sell better of course.

[elmayerle]

If I'm not mistaken though, in dry thrust, you can get vertical lift on a Freestyle though - kicking up reheat in Vertical Flight, unfortunately, is absolute murder on a surface that is not prepared.  I could have sworn I saw a picture of a JSF in reheat vertical on a V/TOL test area that was specially designed to vent more - IIRC they did it to test the Pop Stall threat problem, another one the Freestyle at times had troubles with.

It turns out that the driven fan on the F-35 provides a cool flow of air that prevents the reingestion of exhaust gases from the main nozzle in reheat during vtol operations; it also has some mitigating effect on the surface below.

[kitnut617]

Thanks Weaver,
Makes you think in the 'what-if' field. That if you were to build a retro Spitfire with all the safety features made from composite materials and carbon fibre. Who apart from the racing circuit would buy them?

A fair few private buyers too: remember when Yak produced that small series of hand-built "YaK-9"s (Allison engines IIRC). Got quite a few takers. A two seater, however "inauthentic" would sell better of course.

Maybe along the lines of the Thunder Mustang, which even has a V-12 timed to sound like a Merlin.
http://www.thundermustang.com/

[Weaver]

If I'm not mistaken though, in dry thrust, you can get vertical lift on a Freestyle though - kicking up reheat in Vertical Flight, unfortunately, is absolute murder on a surface that is not prepared.  I could have sworn I saw a picture of a JSF in reheat vertical on a V/TOL test area that was specially designed to vent more - IIRC they did it to test the Pop Stall threat problem, another one the Freestyle at times had troubles with.

It turns out that the driven fan on the F-35 provides a cool flow of air that prevents the reingestion of exhaust gases from the main nozzle in reheat during vtol operations; it also has some mitigating effect on the surface below.

Plus it's extracting a huge amount of power (40,000 hp IIRC) from the cruise engine itself, thereby reducing the energy of the latter's exhaust.

[elmayerle]

Granted, that doesn't hurt the F-35B's ground footprint either.  It should be interesting to see how the reality works out when they do actual flight testing in the vtol mode, though I'm *really* waiting to see BF-4 in flight test since it will have most of the full mission fit of systems and will get the remainder later in the test program as a few systems finish maturing.

[McColm]

Were there any problems with the X-32?

[B777LR]

Were there any problems with the X-32?

Plenty. I believe the engine ingested hot exhaust gasses on one test.

[Stargazer]

In an article about Burt Rutan, I once read that when he left Bede circa 1974, he was working on a "canard BD-5 derivative"... Has anyone seen at least a drawing of that? Would be fun to make a model of!

[McColm]

In an article about Burt Rutan, I once read that when he left Bede circa 1974, he was working on a "canard BD-5 derivative"... Has anyone seen at least a drawing of that? Would be fun to make a model of!

The VariViggen designed and built by Burt Rutan is very similar and so to is the VariEze.
I wouldn't mind having a go at building the AT3 or the Rutan Model 151 Ares.

Scaled Composites have put a jet engine (the same engine used in the Beechjet/ T-1A Jayhawk) in the 151 Agile Response Effective Support, described as a lightweight jet armed with a 25mm cannon, which has potential for anti-helicopter, close support, boarder patrol, drug enforcement and forward air control work. This aircraft appeared in the movie Iron Eagle III as the secret ME-263. Although the US Army and the US Air force have shown some interest no orders have been placed.

The Beechcarft Starship takes all of Burt Rutan's characteristic design features and applies them to a business aircraft. The Starship has jet like performance and handling with the economy of a twin turboprop. 53 examples were built, due to poor sales Beechcraft ended support and scrapped all leased Starships. In 2008 there were only 6 airworthy Starships left.

[Stargazer]

Thanks for the recap! Do you know my website on Burt Rutan? http://stargazer2006.online.fr
I'm sure you'll love it!

There is so much stuff Rutan worked on that would make great modeling stuff... 

[Sauragnmon]

Here's one that pisses me off... it kinda made it, but then idiots slapped it down again - the Battleship.

Every Carrier vs Battleship argument is Slanted.  Why?  The ONLY battleships in WW2 that were Fully, Ground Up, Built to deal with Aircraft, never got in a fight with a Carrier.  Iowa was the only class built to deal with aircraft, all the rest were emergency refitted, which is at best half the job.  There has not been a modern warship to take advantage of developments from Gerald Bull's advancements on artillery, nor has there been a battleship BUILT in the modern paradigm - instead, if anything, they were refitted, or not truely Battleships.  There isn't a ship out there today that could take the brutal beating that even a BattleCRUISER could lay down, let alone a full blown Battleship.

[McColm]

HMS Belfast was the last battleship to serve with the Royal Navy, as fighter and bomber aircraft improved (and submarines, missiles and technology) the need for the battleship fadded.
Although the former Russian Navy adpted their battleships and called them something different.

[B777LR]

Sorry for being a bit nitpicky, but:

HMS Belfast was the last battleship to serve with the Royal Navy, as fighter and bomber aircraft improved (and submarines, missiles and technology) the need for the battleship fadded.
Although the former Russian Navy adopted their battleships and called them something different.

Belfast was/is a cruiser, not a battleship. The Vanguard was the last british battleship.
The Russian navy isn't former. I suppose you mean the Soviet navy?
Finally, the Kirov class are battlecruisers, rather than battleships

[pyro-manic]

The Kirov class are large missile cruisers, not true battlecruisers. The last battlecruisers were the Alaska-class, even if the USN didn't call them as such.

Saur: As much as a heavy gun ship could smash up any modern surface combatant, that's all they'd be good for. And you can't build a battleship that's invulnerable, so it would inevitably succumb to air and/or submarine attack. Battleships are very good at looking big, bad and impressive, but they're hugely expensive, impractical, inflexible, and very large targets.

[jcf]

Here's one that pisses me off... it kinda made it, but then idiots slapped it down again - the Battleship.

Every Carrier vs Battleship argument is Slanted.  Why?  The ONLY battleships in WW2 that were Fully, Ground Up, Built to deal with Aircraft, never got in a fight with a Carrier.  Iowa was the only class built to deal with aircraft, all the rest were emergency refitted, which is at best half the job.  There has not been a modern warship to take advantage of developments from Gerald Bull's advancements on artillery, nor has there been a battleship BUILT in the modern paradigm - instead, if anything, they were refitted, or not truely Battleships.  There isn't a ship out there today that could take the brutal beating that even a BattleCRUISER could lay down, let alone a full blown Battleship.

As good as the Iowas supposedly were they still would have lost to an all out air attack,
and it would never get close enough to the carrier to use its big guns. No carrier commander
would be stupid enough to let it get close enough. A BB's only true defense against air attack
was a CAP from its own carriers.

BBs were anachronisms in WWII, let alone after.