The Geriatric Air Force - Slightly Used

dy031101 · October 22, 2009, 06:43:58 AM

Quote from: gunfighter on October 22, 2009, 06:32:24 AM
Why going for F106s if you can order phantoms? I think the delta is quite limited in her capabilities, even if you fit sparrows.

Just for something fresh and fun...... I mean everyone is choosing Phantoms, as did I in my Mk.1 list (although now replaced, it'll still be in another version)

gunfighter · October 22, 2009, 08:49:41 AM

OK, that´s right. Are F8s eligible? I think no one has mentioned them.

blue520 · October 22, 2009, 09:07:19 AM

Can not see any reason why the F-8 Crusader should be ineligible. If you are talking about the export version of the the Shenyang J-8 then it would be ineligible.

gunfighter · October 22, 2009, 09:40:30 AM

Sure I meant the crusader...

I´ll think in the upgrades. As for engines, maybe a F404 would do well. It would need BVR capability, but I don´t know which radar could fit inside that small radome, any ideas?
Just to get rid fo those boring phantoms

elmayerle · October 22, 2009, 09:45:23 AM

Quote from: gunfighter on October 22, 2009, 09:40:30 AM
Sure I meant the crusader... I´ll think in the upgrades. As for engines, maybe a F404 would do well. It would need BVR capability, but I don´t know which radar could fit inside that small radome, any ideas?
Just to get rid fo those boring phantoms

For re-engining the F-8, I'd follow the lead of the A-7 and use either one afterburning engine of the F100/F110 class or two afterburning F404s (cf. Vought V.529). For the radar, how about a variation of the An/APG-68 or equivalent radar. The antenna should be small enough to fit the F-8's radome without overmuch trouble. For that matter, a derivative of the AN/APG-67 fitted to the F-20 and A-50 would likely fit, too. As a different option, I wonder if the reduced diamter antenna version of the AN/APG-65 fitted to teh AV-8B+ would fit?

Weaver · October 22, 2009, 09:52:23 AM

Has anyone proposed an engine re-fit for the Crusader? If not, then it fall foul of rule #7.

Wasn't there real-world talk (not sure how serious) of a Spey-powered version?

dy031101 · October 22, 2009, 10:05:16 AM

Is there any aircraft other than the Vulcan bomber be proposed to use the Rolls-Royce Olympus or Wright J67?

blue520 · October 22, 2009, 10:06:07 AM

Adding on to Weaver, with the Crusader and engines you have to remember rule 7 (limited to actual or proposed upgrades) and are not really sure how the the rules apply with the applying A-7 proposals to the F-8 (think it would be out). I was doing a hunt around to see if any one had proposed any re-engines for the French (or any at all) and turned up zero.

Interesting to see some one else bring up the Vought V-529 (BTW the A-7 conversion was for 2 non-afterburning F404s), I have been thinking about this aircraft in order to keep a similarity with a F404 powered A-4 rather than go for a re-engine like the A-7F.

Logan Hartke · October 22, 2009, 10:30:03 AM

I have seen different re-engining proposals for the F-8 variants.

The only engine options I'm aware of at the moment for the F-8 are:

J57
J75
J79
Spey

Let me know if there are others that were considered. I'd be interested in them. As for the F-106, the only engine seriously studied for that same airframe was the original J75. I'd love to see other options (I'd imagine somebody at Convair considered some other ones).

Cheers,

Logan

gunfighter · October 22, 2009, 10:43:38 AM

OK, my original idea was to replace the radar with a ELTA 2032, thus allowing medium range shots like Derbys. I have checked that the APQ-94 had an antenae diameter of 533mm, and the ELTA has a 500mm dish, so it is possible.
I will analyze the engine options, maybe the speys are good choices.

dy031101 · October 22, 2009, 11:12:32 AM

According to my American Secret Project book, the F-106 was originally (as the F-102B) designed to combine the airframe of the F-102A with the J67...... I'd have liked to think that it means I can re-engine the F-102 with the Olympus except...... oh actually, may I try the Olympus 320?

As far as the F-106 goes...... evolution of the design did feature other engines, but the resulting aircraft would've had little if any at all in common with the baseline Delta Dart...... I don't think I wanna go there......

Logan Hartke · October 22, 2009, 11:33:07 AM

Quote from: dy031101 on October 22, 2009, 11:12:32 AM
According to my American Secret Project book, the F-106 was originally (as the F-102B) designed to combine the airframe of the F-102A with the J67...... I'd have liked to think that it means I can re-engine the F-102 with the Olympus except I could find nothing on the development of the J67 other than its identity as an Olympus Americanized and wonder if an afterburning version did end up materialising at all......

Maybe I can try Olympus 320?

As far as the F-106 goes...... evolution of the design did feature other engines, but the resulting aircraft would've had little if any at all in common with the baseline Delta Dart...... I don't think I wanna go there......

Yeah, I have the secret projects book, too, and that's what I gathered from the F-106. They were different airframes, basically. On the J67...

QuoteIn the event, the J67 engine never did materialize as a realistic powerplant for American aircraft.

From Joe Baugher's great site.

Cheers,

Logan

dy031101 · October 22, 2009, 12:07:00 PM

Quote from: Logan Hartke on October 22, 2009, 11:33:07 AM
On the J67...

QuoteIn the event, the J67 engine never did materialize as a realistic powerplant for American aircraft.

From Joe Baugher's great site.

Was it because of the time constraint or performance figure? How different was the J67 from the Olympus 320 (or rather vice-versa, for the purpose of re-engining the refurbished F-102A into the F-102B) though?

I mean if this would be no problem, I want to incorporate it in my "Delta-wing Country" (maybe Mk.3) version of the list.

Bryan H. · October 22, 2009, 02:47:49 PM

Quote from: Logan Hartke on October 19, 2009, 09:09:30 AM
Quote from: blue520 on October 19, 2009, 05:13:12 AM
Would it be permissible inside the rules to modify any aircraft with an engine that has never been proposed for that aircraft, that is smaller in length and diameter than the original engines and a proposed modification engine, also the engine it was developed from was proposed as an modification and the amount of changes would be similar. In this case the aircraft in question is the F-4 and I am wondering about fitting F414s to it. The F414 is smaller in length and diameter than the J79, Spey Mk 202 & also the PW1120, also there was a proposed modernisation (McDonnell Douglas) for the F-4 that induced the F404 as one of the options.

No, it's not permissible. We've been over this already. The F414 =/= F404. We went over this when Brian H tried to turn the A-4 Skyhawk into a Gripen NG.

One could do much worse than making a A-4 into a Gripen (w/the F404); versus, making it into a Gripen NG (w/the F414).

Bryan

dy031101 · October 22, 2009, 04:34:18 PM

As I am still pondering about the choice of my fighters in my Mk.1 list...... I saw a potential trouble for MiG-23, one of my candidates......

The ground-attack MiG-27 was licence-built in India, with deliveries said to last into 1996 (examples after 1988 were built with increasing local content)......

Does anyone have more info on that?