HMS Bulwark, Centaur, Albion

[roughneck06]

 How much service life was left in these carriers when they were decommissioned? Would Albion be a suitable ship w/ upgrades as a Vstol Carrier for a given navy? Which Country? Upgrade Centaur to operate A-4s, perhaps F-8 and A-7s? Could Centaur eventually operate F/A-18s? If so- how many? I had read somewhere that Peru had looked at buying Bulwark and Chile was offerred Hermes after the Falklands war.

Another thought- HMS Victorious had suffered a fire in 1967 or so and although the damage was relatively slight- it was used as an excuse to get rid of her ( how very sad ) Had she been repaired- any ideas for who might have purchased her and upgrades? How much service life might she had ? possible to eventually operate F/A 18s.

Ideas/comments welcome!

[pyro-manic]

Victorious had just finished a refit when the fire occurred, so apart from the very minor fire damage she was in great shape. Just like Eagle - she was in much better condition than Ark Royal when retired, and would have lasted much longer. I suppose Vicky might have lasted to the Falklands, if the politicians didn't interfere.

The rest of the Centaur class could conceivably last as long as Hermes has (now Viraat in the Indian Navy), but they'd need lots of work. They might be able to operate a handful of Hornets, but the conversion work required would be very expensive, and the resulting ships would have only a marginal capability. Better to add ski-jumps and Harriers.

[roughneck06]

Victorious lasting thru the Falklands- Buccs and F-4s? Certainly Gannett AEW would prove it's worth. If Albion, Bulwark were updated- who might be potential buyers once the RN were finished using them? Alternate aircraft for Vic???

Could Canada utilized Albion or Bulwark as a Harrier/ASW Helo carrier vice Bonaventure? Set aside politics in Canada of the times.

[Weaver]

Centaur was knackered by the late 1960s and had missed out on many of the upgrades that the others got which is why she was the first to go. Bulwark was in good enough shape in '82 that they were seriously considering reactivating here for the Falklands if it had gone badly. Can't recall when Albion was scrapped, but she could probably have lasted as long as Bulwark, given that they had very similar useage.

In one scenario I envisaged, Ark Royal was retired in the early 1970s, and the money saved was used to convert all three surviving Centaurs to Hermes-style "interim ASW carriers" pending the arrival of the Invincibles.

In another, different scenario, I had Victorious going to India and flying Paladins, which were a Hawker Siddley built modified Crusader with a Spey, raised cockpit and decent radar.

[Thorvic]

Centaur was knackered by the late 1960s and had missed out on many of the upgrades that the others got which is why she was the first to go. Bulwark was in good enough shape in '82 that they were seriously considering reactivating here for the Falklands if it had gone badly. Can't recall when Albion was scrapped, but she could probably have lasted as long as Bulwark, given that they had very similar useage.

Centaur was actually quite good, she only went early as the Govt had decided to cancel the carrier fleet and she was no longer required. She had steam catapults, angled deck etc as she acted as cover whilst the other carriers were rebuilt or completed to class A standard (Full angled deck, new Island, Type 984 radar etc). Once they were finished she was originally earmarked for a Commando Carrier refit as per Albion.

If the CVA-01 program had continued and the Carrier fleet reprieved then the likes of Hermes and Victorious would have been available for resale in the early 70's, not only that the trend at the time of cancellation was for the next generation of carrier aircraft to be more light and more compact whilst retaining the capability and performance of the big 50's designs then in service (Phantom, Buccaneer, Sea Vixen). The UK & France both relised they couldn't build carriers capable of operation the new US types in usable numbers so would have to develop smaller carrier aircraft more suitable to their ships. AFVG Jaguar M, Mirage F1M, some of the small VG types described in BSP.

Thus the smaller carrier nations would have had larger carriers available along with suitable aircraft to replace their Colossus/Majestic class carriers during the 70's.

In the Late 60's however the Australians were busy refitting Melbourne and wen't looking for a larger carrier, the Dutch had just sold Karel Doorman to Argentina and had pulled out of carrier ops, Canada had just refitted Bonnie but by 1970 had decided to scrap their carrier as per the UK. If the UK had stayed in the game and had the new aircraft to operate from themm then chances are the Autraliansa and Indians may well have replaced thier carriers, Canada may have stayed in the game too and the US might have had suitable aircraft to offer for use on their surplus Essex class carriers.

G

[Amphion]

Can't recall when Albion was scrapped.....

Albion, scrapped 1973
Bulwark, scrapped 1984
Centaur, scrapped 1972

[DarrenP]

Albion as far as i remember was sold for conversion to a heavy lift crane for the North sea oil industry. In my What If world The UK would have built the others of the Centaur class Polyphemus,monmoth,Arrogant and Elephant. 1 would have completed to the same standard as Albion, Bulwark and Centaur and the other 3 would have completed as Hermes.
the 4 Batch 1 by 70's would have been in the LPH role and the 4 Hermes would have been in the CVL role with Trackers, A4's and Wessex HAS/HU or Sea Kings

The length of time building of the Batch 2's would have given them an extended life well into 80's early 90's  and they are also buccaneer capable.

Mind you I would also have Ark Royal and Eagle sold to Australia and Canada
and the Malta and New Zealand classes built instead equipped with F4, Buccaneer as well as Tracker,Tracer and Trader

[Jschmus]

There is a profile on Shipbucket, in the Never Built section, of a Centaur-class carrier reworked into a sort of large guided missile ship, with Sea Slugs.

http://www.shipbucket.com/images.php?dir=Never%20Built%20Designs/GB%20CG%20Centaur_%20Exeter%201.gif

Not sure how realistic that is, but it's an idea.

According to Wikipedia, HMS Albion was sold in 1973 for "conversion to a heavy lift vessel for North Sea oil exploration. The plan collapsed, and she was instead broken up for scrap at Faslane Naval Base."

[Amphion]

....According to Wikipedia, HMS Albion was sold in 1973 for "conversion to a heavy lift vessel for North Sea oil exploration. The plan collapsed, and she was instead broken up for scrap at Faslane Naval Base."

The info I had was from the book "Royal Navy Aircraft Carriers 1945-1990" from Ian Allan Ltd. The book states the same fate and also specifies the buyer as Wilson Walton Engineering. The intended conversion was as a heavy lift crane with a capacity of 2600 tons. The book also states that the cost for Centaur, as completed, was £10.500.000  .

[DarrenP]

Victorious lasting thru the Falklands- Buccs and F-4s? Certainly Gannett AEW would prove it's worth. If Albion, Bulwark were updated- who might be potential buyers once the RN were finished using them? Alternate aircraft for Vic???

Could Canada utilized Albion or Bulwark as a Harrier/ASW Helo carrier vice Bonaventure? Set aside politics in Canada of the times.

Victorious was to small to operate Phantoms I think Ark Royal was the smallest platform they could operate from.