avatar_lenny100

Mind the shap

Started by lenny100, November 18, 2009, 02:48:42 AM

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Sauragnmon

The typically acknowledged why of the Russian Gauge Rail was for the stability, and that it was easier to incorporate climbing gear for harder sections of rail.  In general the plan was more for the logistics when they did it, rather than the defensive benefit - that was more of a collateral gain in truth, and did come in handy in a few incidents of note, when the enemy had to revert to Other means of logistical supply that caused them to weaken their overextended supply lines even more, etc etc.
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Overkill? Nah, it's Insurance.  So are the 20" guns.

NARSES2

You could get problems with tunnel diametre ? When the UK system was denationalised the French Company which got the SE franchise had real problems. Ordered a load of new coaching stock only to find they wouldn't go through some Kent tunnels - turned out the origional early Victorian Jerry built tunnels had had to be relined in latter Victorian times to stop them caving in  :banghead:. Once they widened said tunnels they then found the stock wouldn't go through certain platforms as these stuck out to far so as to allow the passengers to board the specially built narrower then standard trains on the route - narrower because of the previously mentioned tunnels. Didn't anyone bother to ask why the trains on one section of the franchise were narrowere then the rest ?  :banghead:

What the Victorians did for us  ;D

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Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 22, 2009, 11:48:05 AM
Quote from: B787 on November 22, 2009, 11:12:28 AM
That said, which countries use the Russian gauge? Why did the Russians end up with their own gauge? Can any train carriage just have it's bogeys swapped, like they do when a train crosses into the Russian gauge system, or is it a special modification?

Probably because they were Russian........ :)

Or because they could, it being a HUGE country. Don't forget that when Brunel built the GWR in the 1800s he chose 7' 1/4" as his gauge, much larger than the Russian's 5' or so (4' 11 7/8" actually, but it's really metric 1520 mm)

There are three gauges even larger than the Russians in use now, India has 5' 6", also used by Pakistan, Chile and Argentina. Then Spain uses 5' 5.33", as does Portugal, somewhat logically. Finally Ireland uses 5' 3". The Russian gauge is shared with Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Mongolia.

Standard gauge is used for much of the rest of the world, over 50% of the world's railways in fact, but there are loads of narrower gauges everywhere too. The gauge swapping business is normal everyday practice at the Spanish/French border and they can do it fully automatically, as the wheels are un-locked from the axles and slid along before being re-locked. Changing the whole bogie isn't as easy, but it could be done with some pre-planned engineering.

As for why, there are many reasons, not the least is the more stable curving and straight line performance with a wider gauge. There's always been some thoughts that the Russians did it because they didn't want any potential invaders driving their own rolling stock straight onto the Russian tracks, but this tends to be discounted now as when the choice was made in the 1840s 'standard gauge' as such hadn't been universally adopted.

I should point out that Kit realy does know what he is talking about here. He spent a fair chunk of his working life employed as an engineer with British Rail.
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rickshaw

Quote from: PR19_Kit on November 22, 2009, 11:48:05 AM
Quote from: B787 on November 22, 2009, 11:12:28 AM
That said, which countries use the Russian gauge? Why did the Russians end up with their own gauge? Can any train carriage just have it's bogeys swapped, like they do when a train crosses into the Russian gauge system, or is it a special modification?

Probably because they were Russian........ :)

Or because they could, it being a HUGE country. Don't forget that when Brunel built the GWR in the 1800s he chose 7' 1/4" as his gauge, much larger than the Russian's 5' or so (4' 11 7/8" actually, but it's really metric 1520 mm)

There are three gauges even larger than the Russians in use now, India has 5' 6", also used by Pakistan, Chile and Argentina. Then Spain uses 5' 5.33", as does Portugal, somewhat logically. Finally Ireland uses 5' 3". The Russian gauge is shared with Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Mongolia.

Standard gauge is used for much of the rest of the world, over 50% of the world's railways in fact, but there are loads of narrower gauges everywhere too. The gauge swapping business is normal everyday practice at the Spanish/French border and they can do it fully automatically, as the wheels are un-locked from the axles and slid along before being re-locked. Changing the whole bogie isn't as easy, but it could be done with some pre-planned engineering.

As for why, there are many reasons, not the least is the more stable curving and straight line performance with a wider gauge. There's always been some thoughts that the Russians did it because they didn't want any potential invaders driving their own rolling stock straight onto the Russian tracks, but this tends to be discounted now as when the choice was made in the 1840s 'standard gauge' as such hadn't been universally adopted.

Interesting that you didn't mention Australia's unique railway gauge problem.  Each state and even within the state, different gauges were used.  New South Wales used standard gauge.   Victoria broad gauge and standard gauge.  South Australia broad and narrow gauge.  Western Australia narrow gauge.  Tasmania narrow gauge.  Northern Territory narrow gauge.  The Commonwealth Government adopted standard gauge for the trans-Australian line across the Nullabor Plain (while the state government lines at each end used narrow gauge.   Basically a nightmare.   We became experts at the fast switching between the different gauges as a consequence.  During WWII the problem was recognised but it wasn't until the early 1990s that the first train travelled around the country on a single standard gauge!  The first standard gauge line, north-south from Darwin to Adelaide only opened in the 21st century.
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