Supermarine Spitfire and Seafire

[kitbasher]

Now how about a kit-bashing sessions between the Spitfire and a P-40?  Use the Allison engine cowling on the Spitfire. 

A possible backstory would be the demand for aircraft production outstripped Supermarine and Rolls-Royce so a second production line was set up to produce the Spitfire in Canada with engines provided by Allison.  Now what Mark Number would that create?

....after all, the Kittyhawk III had a Merlin (check nose contours - no intake at the top of the cowling)  

Sorry!  Kittyhawk II (aka P-40F) had a Merlin 28, not the Kittyhawk III.  Very few actually reached the RAF, most stayed with the USAAF.
   

[GTX]

As an alternate (or perhaps follow on) to the Bristol Hercules powered Spitfire, what about a late model Spitfire/Seafire (see below) re-engined with a Bristol Centaurus?




Regards,

Greg

[Daryl J.]

How's about taking Tamiya's Spitfire Mk.1 and converting the wings to cloth save for munitions door covers, curved windscreen, and a twin blade prop.     Then mount a pair of automobile headlights just in front of the wing leading edge for landing lights.


De Heretico Carborundum!!!!!      


Daryl J., who wouldn't mind doing a kit this way either, structural limits be da*ned

[GTX]

I can't imagine why, but what about a late model spitfire or seafire with a similar engine arrangement (the intake arrangement, not necessarily the exact same engine mk) as the Lincons or Shackletons:




Regards,

Greg

[Mossie]

Yeah, but ugly doesn't mean it wouldn't be cool!

Looks wise, I think you can improve the looks of the Spitfire if you're not worried about the performance or practicality even if it's hardly worth the bother!  With the Mitchell Spitfire marks, I'd change the Merlin for a RR Peregrine to loose the chin & add it onto the High Speed Spitfire airfame.  Going further, you could put the intakes in the wing roots.  With the Smith Spitfire marks, I'd add a Napier Sabre with the radiators in the wing roots (like the Tempest Mk.I) to a bubble top airframe.

[Mossie]

I was bored!   Hi Speed Spit with RR Peregrine.


For comparison


Talking about looks only, what do you think?

[Mossie]

And the later model Spit, a Mk.22 with a Napier Sabre & wing root intakes.


Mk.22 for comparison.


Not so sure about this, the Sabre is a little short.

[kitnut617]

The rear of the spinner would be in the same place as the Griffon Simon, the way you have it there's no room for the supercharger.  The models I've been building of the various Hawker Fury prototypes are all practically the same overall length regardless of what engine was installed.

Griffon Fury:


Sabre Fury:


The other thing to keep in mind is the width, just check out a Tempest to a Spitfire.

[Mossie]

Thanks Robert, hadn't thought about the superchatger, I'll re-jig the profile when I get a chance.  Regarding the width of the Tempest, the aeroplane is wider than the Spitfire, but the Napier Sabre is around 10" less than the Griffon I think?  Should be just enough room to fit it without the fairings for the cylinder head as per the Griffon Spits?

[B777LR]

And the later model Spit, a Mk.22 with a Napier Sabre & wing root intakes.


Mk.22 for comparison.


Not so sure about this, the Sabre is a little short.

Ugh, the tail looks horrible, is much too large, ruins the nice look of the spitfire...
Apart from that, it looks perfect!

[kitnut617]

No, there's nowt wrong with it, because it's the standard late Spitfire tail.  They were fitted with the larger Spiteful type tail to cure the instability when the rear fuselage was cut down.  That's whj the Mk 18 has such a big rudder.

The very late Spitfire/Seafires are my absolute all time favorites, the whole aircraft is just beautiful.  Closely followed by Spitefuls, Tempests, Furys, MB5.

[Mossie]

The Griffon is pretty much the same size as the Merlin, hence why it fitted the Spit so neatly.  The Sabre is a much larger engine - have you seen pics of the Typhoon or Tempest sans engine cowlings?  There's a lot of engine crowbarred in there.  In any case, I doubt that the airframe is stressed for that much weight.

As for re-engining it with the Peregrine..  Why lose approx 300hp when you need as much as possible for a speed attempt?  Would have been much better if they'd fitted an experimental Griffon prototype...  I think you'd also have problems with the aerodynamics too, because your thrust line is totally different in the Peregrine version.

I've not seen pics of a Tiffie/Tempest without the cowling & I wasn't quite sure about the dimensions, although I know they are much bigger aircraft than the Spitfire.  This was purely an exercise in aesthetics hence the 'talking about looks only' line, I knew there would be engineering & operational problems with both engines.  So, talking about looks only.....

[Sauragnmon]

I had a rather insane idea just strike me... it's got an interesting backstory.  *raises the thread from the dead, because they ask not to double a thread up*

So here we have, in the 1930's the Spitfire is a racer plane, right?  The Germans are scoping out the competition, and they're watching calmly.  The Spitfire is first seen, and the Germans observe the remarkable performance.  Seeing an inspirational thought, some of the more insane gentlemen in the Abwehr decide to steal blueprints for it.  With the observation of the Kestrel's performance on 109s in the Spanish Civil War, they decide instead, to build and test evaluate a version of the Spitfire with their own new DB-601 Engine.  Radiator is widened, shortened, and mounted under the fuselage.  Initial builds include 7.92mm MG-17's in the cowling, MG-151/20 in the prop mount.  Little modification is made to the airframe, as the initial is to test the Spitfire's airframe on their own.

I just was looking at the Spit GB and thought to myself "you know, I wonder what a Spit would look like with a 601 in the nose instead of the Merlin..."

[Sauragnmon]

Equally insane thought here... the twin-engine spit that's being built had a sadistic thought come to mind, correct me on feasability, or adjust it here...

Twin Engine Spit, Halifax engines, and we shift the cockpit forward towards the nose.  A couple of Brownings or Hispanos in the nose for light fire, and we go for the kill.  In place of the original cockpit, we mount an autoloader, and the mother of all British guns - the Royal Ordnance Quick Firing 17 Pounder Anti Tank Gun.  You had a tank?  Really?  News to us!

[sequoiaranger]

>I just was looking at the Spit GB and thought to myself "you know, I wonder what a Spit would look like with a 601 in the nose instead of the Merlin..."<

In truth, the Germans actually fitted a DB-601 to a Spitfire for tests. When I saw it, of course I could not help making a whif of it, as if Goering gave Galland his wish, and supplied him with a "squadron of Spitfires" with the DB engine.

I'd show you a picture of my model of it if I had a picture. When I get a chance, I will scan the side-view drawing of the German example, then post a pic of "Galland's Spitfire"--it's simply AMAZING how similar the 109 and Spit look. That is, the Spit is camo-ed just like Galland's 109 and any casual glance could NOT tell the difference!! I am mega-busy the next few days, but when I get a chance....!