Supermarine Spitfire and Seafire

[Sauragnmon]

That would be a beautiful pair of profiles beside each other.  Galland's Spitfire, Hartmann's 109.

I'd love to see the images of a 601'ed Spitfire.  I just think it'd look cool, with the elliptical wing, the car-door cockpit, and the 601.

[kitbasher]

>In truth, the Germans actually fitted a DB-601 to a Spitfire for tests. When I saw it, of course I could not help making a whif of it, as if Goering gave Galland his wish, and supplied him with a "squadron of Spitfires" with the DB engine.

Actually a DB605A, old chap.  See http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=2034 and also http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/spitfires-luftwaffe-3473-3.html for more of the 601 angle.

[sequoiaranger]

>>In truth, the Germans actually fitted a DB-601 to a Spitfire for tests. When I saw it, of course I could not help making a whif of it, as if Goering gave Galland his wish, and supplied him with a "squadron of Spitfires" with the DB engine.<<

Actually a DB605A, old chap. <

Well, the "real" one maybe, but not in the Summer of 1940 near Abbeville!

Anyway, the pics below are of "Galland's Spitfire" complete with his telescopic gunsight, the extra head armor that saved his life (and got the mechanic who installed it a free "liberty pass"), and markings from the height of the Battle of Britain. What appears as green-on-green camo in the picture is actually gray-on-green (RLM Grau-- slightly grey-green---and Dunklegrun) on the model. This is one of my best mottle jobs (1/72-scale). Galland has that "Hitleresque" mustache. The antenna "wire" was a human hair that was nice and straight when installed, but I guess has since absorbed some moisture or something and sagged a bit. The "nose gun" troughs are painted on (as they probably would have been on any "real" such Spitfire that had no room for them). There are a pair of 12.7mm machine guns in the wings, and a pair of 20mm cannon, similarly armed as the Bf-109.

As I had said before, I think it is AMAZING how similar in configuration the Bf-109 and Spitfire were---no wonder there were "friendly fire" incidents!

The ONLY difference between this and a Spitfire is the engine cowl which came from a Matchbox Me-410 kit because it fit right (OK, so it might be a DB-605 after all!!).

[Sauragnmon]

Yeah that would be a 605 if it's off a 410.  Still, that looks rather interesting.  The telescopic sight is quite interesting as well, makes me wonder if Galland wouldn't have been suited to the use of the 410 with the BK-5, to snipe at the enemy bombers, if he had a telescopic sight for his guns like that.  Reach out and Frack something up!

[Sauragnmon]

Ah, interesting enough.  Thanks for the info on that, Wook.  Probably best would be the short-barrel 17pdr off the Comet, to keep the weapon light.  Not to mention, you don't need all the muzzle velocity, you have the ballistic angle to increase your striking force.

Still, that Spit looks cool, whichever Daimler-Benz is in that nose.

Aside - didn't Austria, pre-anschluss, have an aircraft manufacturer?  I had some idea in my head, and I couldn't recall off the top of my head.  Either Austria or the Czechs.

[GTX]

Since this wasn't enough:



Do I go to hell for this?



Regards,

Greg

[Mossie]

Nah, you're already there!

[elmayerle]

As I had said before, I think it is AMAZING how similar in configuration the Bf-109 and Spitfire were---no wonder there were "friendly fire" incidents!

Well, I've read speculation, based on RR using a He-70 for engine tests and the similarities of configuration, that both the Spitfire and Bf-109 were at least somewhat inspired by the He-70.

[Mossie]

Wikipedia gives a little clue as to the possible influence of the He-70 on the Spitfire:

Part of a letter that R J Mitchell wrote to Heinkel after seeing the aircraft perform with the Rolls Royce Kestrel engine fitted:

"We, at Supermarine Aviation, were particularly impressed, since we have been unable to achieve such smooth lines in the aircraft that we entered for the Schneider Trophy Races.... In addition to this, we recently investigated the effect that installing certain new British fighter engines would have on the He 70, We were dismayed to find that your new aircraft, despite its larger measurements, is appreciably faster than our fighters. It is indeed a triumph."

[Mossie]

Do I go to hell for this?



Regards,

Greg

Greg, from the depths of memory I had a feeling that your pic wasn't so heretical.  A look in BSP Fighters & bombers brought up the Supermarine 305 that was designed to the Defiant Spec & a search on Secret Projects brought up the pic:



As you can see, it was very much a Spit with re-designed fuse, so you're trip below is delayed at least!!!

[dy031101]

Greg, from the depths of memory I had a feeling that your pic wasn't so heretical.  A look in BSP Fighters & bombers brought up the Supermarine 305 that was designed to the Defiant Spec & a search on Secret Projects brought up the pic......

The turret seems more streamlined with respect to the fuselage than that of the Defiant......

What's the assessment on the drag penalty of the turret?

[Mossie]

The only mention it's gives to drag in BSP is a short statment to say that all external surfaces were designed to reduce this to minimum, including the turret position.  The turret would have been armed with four Lewis guns instead of Brownings.

[kitnut617]

Also I believe it's a remote turret, the gunner sitting directly behind the pilot facing backwards and aiming from under the dome you can see.  There a mention of a similar set-up in the Sharp/Bowyer Mosquito book.

[dy031101]

Have been thinking about this ever since sequoiaranger's posts reminded me of the DB-605-powered Spitfire......

In a non-Nazi Germany (preferably without Göring among the higher-ups) scenario, DB-605-powered Seafire might be a good replacement for Bf-109T and a competitor for Me-155?

I have a hard time imagining that happening in other scenarios though...... (Capturing enough Seafires or navalizing enough captured Spitfires, both needing to overcome interference from Göring?  "Difficult" might be an understatement.)

[Mossie]

In a non-nazi, or at the very least a no WWII situation, you could maybe also see RAF aircraft with DB series engines?  Maybe as a politcal measure to show co-operation, or maybe just buying abroad as an alternative to the Merlin that had a few developmental problems?