Supermarine Spitfire and Seafire

[wuzak]

kitnut617

In the RR Mustang FTB, the Griffon engine was just behind the cockpit with the center of the engine just over the main spar, the engine could be moved a bit further forward than how Greg has it.  In this photo you can see that the front of the engine is just under the rear of the canopy.

I never saw that design before.  Is that just a WHIF design or something real?

It was a Rolls-Royce project. They had a Mustang set aside, but I don't think anything came of the project. There was also a similar project proposed around the Rolls-Royce Crecy.

[NARSES2]

kitnut617

In the RR Mustang FTB, the Griffon engine was just behind the cockpit with the center of the engine just over the main spar, the engine could be moved a bit further forward than how Greg has it.  In this photo you can see that the front of the engine is just under the rear of the canopy.

I never saw that design before.  Is that just a WHIF design or something real?

It was a Rolls-Royce project. They had a Mustang set aside, but I don't think anything came of the project. There was also a similar project proposed around the Rolls-Royce Crecy.

Indeed a real Rolls Royce project. Unicraft do a conversion kit for it, and it's one of his better ones 

[kitnut617]

kitnut617

In the RR Mustang FTB, the Griffon engine was just behind the cockpit with the center of the engine just over the main spar, the engine could be moved a bit further forward than how Greg has it.  In this photo you can see that the front of the engine is just under the rear of the canopy.

I never saw that design before.  Is that just a WHIF design or something real?

The one in the photo is what was called the 'Private Venture Fighter'.  After successfully converting the Mustang to be Merlin powered, RR tried to do the same with the Griffon but as that engine in bigger dimensionally and also quite a bit heavier, it moved the cg way out of wack.  RR's solution was to go with a mid-engined aircraft, they felt that this allowed for a much more varied sizes of engine to be used.  The Air Ministry felt that the aircraft would serve better if it was a flying test bed (FTB) and instructed RR to procede with a prototype.  I've got the book from the Trust after contacting the author because I wanted to ask some questions about the FTB, he told me that had the FTB flown it would have had a Tempest tail assembly installed because after wind tunnel testing of a 1/10 scale model (which still exists and I was able to confirm that the Unicraft kit is a bit short in the forward fuselage), it was found to be very lacking in tail area.  It needed 60% more area.  In the Mustang thread here, I've some photos of how it looks.
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,11386.90.html
RR built a full size mock-up of the FTB which was unusually done in aluminum and was practically a proper prototype, RR was issued a Mustang Mk.I for all the flying surfaces, and later issued a complete Tempest tail assembly.  This was never incorporated though because just after the war ended, the whole project was cancelled.

[NARSES2]

Wasn't the FTB to have had a large calibre cannon firing through the spinner if it had gone into production ?

[kitnut617]

A 20mm was all the FTB was going to get Chris plus one 20mm in each wing apparently, that was the reason I found the kit forward fuselage was too short.  When I got around to detailing the cockpit, I found the cannon's breach would be right up between the pilot's legs. I did some comparison measuring with a couple of 20mm guns I have and found that a 20mm is about 72" to 80" long and the 40mm off the Hurricane are nearer 108". There just wasn't any room for a gun and the cockpit.

There is however a drawing in the RR Mustang book which shows a totally different animal, it was mid-engined, very large calibre gun in the nose and had tricycle undercarriage. It would have been about a big as a Wyvern judging by the size of the pilot that's drawn in.

[NARSES2]

Thanks mate. Always thought it was meant to be either a 30mm (did the Brits have one ?) or 37/40mm. It's always nice to know the truth 

Now that different animal sounds interesting

[PR19_Kit]

Although I've had the kit for quite some time I've only just started to build an Airfix Spitfire PRXIX. I was pretty impressed with it, especially the cockpit area, even if you can't see much of it with the standard closed canopy.

What has amazed me on a kit of this undoubted quality is the relatively large gaps between the outer wing sections and the fuselage! I was hoping to get away without any PSR work on the model but it would seem not. 

[The Wooksta!]

You doing your Dad's Spit from it?  Don't forget to add some whip aerials and the fuel tank bleed valves on the wing.

I love that kit.  It's the easiest build of all the PR19 kits (I've built them all bar the original MPM one - the one in the Millenium set is a copy of the Fujimi kit - and I've only finished off a Fujimi one, not built it from the ground up, too much like hard work with all that filling!)

[NARSES2]

Although I've had the kit for quite some time I've only just started to build an Airfix Spitfire PRXIX. I was pretty impressed with it, especially the cockpit area, even if you can't see much of it with the standard closed canopy.

What has amazed me on a kit of this undoubted quality is the relatively large gaps between the outer wing sections and the fuselage! I was hoping to get away without any PSR work on the model but it would seem not. 

First one I built I didn't have much filling to do at all, second one in progress at the moment I had a fair bit more. Strange but I put it down to me.

Kit if you like the XIX you will adore the 22

[PR19_Kit]

You doing your Dad's Spit from it?  Don't forget to add some whip aerials and the fuel tank bleed valves on the wing.

Anything but......... 

While the airframe is OOB the colour scheme will be totally UN-OOB. Dad would probably be horrified at what I'm going to do with it. 

I agree about the rest of the build, it almost falls together. Perhaps there's more than one mould set to give the differences between builds Chris? I've worked out a scheme to sort that problem for the next one I build, and that one MAY be one of Dad's.

[NARSES2]

I agree about the rest of the build, it almost falls together. Perhaps there's more than one mould set to give the differences between builds Chris?

Possibly, but probably me on a good day, then a bad day  Also the second will be in NMF therefore needed to be to a higher standard of surface finish....which is why I generally avoid NMF

[PR19_Kit]

Must have been a bad day for me too then........ 

[The Wooksta!]

Quite a few Spitfire kits in 48th need a spacer bar to push out the lower fuselage so there's less of a gap and it looks like some of the Airfix 72nd ones are going the same way.  I had to do it with one of the mk 9s a few weeks back.

[PR19_Kit]

I'm thinking of trimming away the outboard end of the lower wing tips so the upper halves then sit nearer the fuselage. Then trim any surplus away from the trailing edges.

So the span will be a mm or two too small. Do I care? No........... 

[NARSES2]

I'm thinking of trimming away the outboard end of the lower wing tips so the upper halves then sit nearer the fuselage. Then trim any surplus away from the trailing edges.

So the span will be a mm or two too small. Do I care? No........... 

You do realise Kit that you could be up in front of the "Court of nit pickers" at Telford ? Never mind we'll get Radish to defend you