M551 Sheridan

[John1964]

I also remember watching a biography of Golda Meir staring Ingrid Bergman, and during the rush to get US equipment during the Yom Kippur war she was telling a US representative that they didn't want the Sheridan because the gun was too powerful for the tank and kept knocking out the fire control system.  I don't know how factually correct that was?

What has been said in previous comments regarding severity of the recoil when firing conventional ammunition is correct.  Fring conventional ammunition (HEAT, HEAT-DP, HE, APERS etc.) created the severe recoil experiences for the gunner and the missile guidance electronics.  Recoil was no where near as excessive when firing the Shillelagh missile since it required less energy to launch and had an integral rocket motor to boost velocity after leaving the muzzle. 

Apologies I badly worded my question, I was wondering if it was correct that the US had offered the Sheridan to the Isreali's and they had turned it down.

[MAD]

From the article (which I have just emailed you)


regards,

Greg
[/quote]

Thanks Greg
You are a gentleman!

[rabid stoat]

Apparently there was work done with a Stingray turret on a Sheridan hull for the MGS program. If Sheridan had been adopted by ADF it would have been an upgrade worth looking at for sure!

[raafif]

Don't know if Israel was offered the Sheridan but if tested I think there would be other issues too -- poor armour protection & short-life suspension -- both critical for Israeli use, that's why they passed on the Bradleys.

[ranger6]

As an additional point, it should be noted that since 1967 -- and the less than stellar perfomance of AMX-13s -- the IDF has eschewed all light tanks (or anything that resembles a light tank). Recce units use wheeled vehicles (reconditioned BRDMs, Ramta RAMs, and, of course HMMWVs). To a large extent, the Sheridan would have been a step backwards for the Israelis.

Ta for now,
R6

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I finished creating 3D models of all four types of ammunition for the M551 (and M60A2) today.  All of these are drawn to the same scale so you can get an appreciation of the differences in size between the Shillelagh missile and the conventional ammunition.  These 3D models were all drawn in SketchUp6 and can be exported as an AutoCAD file to a 3D printer at some point in the future. 



M625 APERS should be M625 Cannister.  Incorrect nomenclature brought on by a wilda$$guess and I was incorrect.  There is an actual APERS projectile but that is for a different weapon.

[uk 75]

Sheridan was going to be the basis of a whole family of vehicles much like the
Russian BMD paratroop vehicle.  There is an excellent US published book on
Light Tanks and similar (I will check the details).

UK 75

[GTX]

This one"



Yep. it's  Sheridan: History of the American Light Tank by R.P. Hunnicutt - A great reference!

Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

Here you go, some Sheridan versions that were proposed:















Regards,

Greg

[Weaver]

That 105mm SP howitzer looks like a winner. Doubt I'll be volunteering for the flamethrower tank though....

[MAD]

Again thanks for posting the 'proposed' Sheridan variants Greg
I must say the 'Forward Air Defence' system would have been a well received addition to the U.S Army's lack of an adequate SPAAG (much better than the add hock M113/Vulcan compromise!!)
Also I must agree with Weaver in regards to the 105mm light weight SPH proposal - after all the U.S Airborne to this day requires such a system!
That 'light weight 155mm' would have also been a very welcome addition to the Airborne counter battery fire capability and artillery interdiction at a drop zone!

P.S. Greg, regards the M113A1 'Interim' MRV/FSV (Saladin turret). I did some enquires at the School of Armour, and was told by the 'Bucket Heads' that its main drawback was its notorious top heaviness, which if not taken seriously lead to the vehicle tipping over when at speed (on road and cross country!). This problem was greatly alleviated with the introduction of the 'Scorpion turret' variant!

M.A.D

[Jeffry Fontaine]

I like the idea of taking the M19 or M42 Duster turret with the twin 40mm cannons and mounting that on the M551 hull.  It would certainly fit into the time frame where the M551 was under development as a simpler and possibly more effective forward air defense system without all of the electronic bells and whistles.  Considering how long the real M42 Duster was in service I am surprise that this was never considered or at the very least trialed on the M551 hull.

[PhaseSpace]

The story of the Sheridan in Australia is covered in detail by Paul Handel at:

http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/sheridenph_1.htm

The problem with the Sheridan and why it was rejected wasn't the gun missile system but the propelling charges of the gun. They were meant to self consume when fired leaving the breech empty (like the German 120mm gun) but there was still hot, burning residual in the breech. This was really unsafe as compared to marginally unsafe in the 120mm.

Also Handel mentions that the Sheridan was only trialled because Australia failed to join a co-development project with one of the ABCA nations for the Air Portable AFV. Based on the date of this attempt to form a multi national project (mid 60s) this would appear to be the British Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) or Scorpion light tank project.

Interestingly in Hunnicutt's book on the Sheridan it details some alternative armament to the 152mm gun. Including conventional 76mm and 90mm guns which would have suited the Australian requirement a lot more than the unsafe anti-tank gun missile launcher. It would have also been a better solution for the US Army as the Sheridan did not have a night firing capability for the Shillelagh missile.

So two WIFFs: Australian co-development and production of the Scorpion vehicles for the cavalry regiments with Scorpion supplanting the FSV/MRV and Spartan the LRV leaving the M113s for APC roles only and a high velocity gun version (76mm or 90mm) of the Sheridan supplanting the FSV/MRV. How the Scorpions would have affected the eventual acquisition of the ASLAV and Sheridan replacement of the Centurion is another tangent.

[GTX]

Actually, I must admit that the idea of an Israeli Sheridan has be intrigued at the moment.

Regards,

Greg

[rickshaw]

Actually, I must admit that the idea of an Israeli Sheridan has be intrigued at the moment.

Regards,

Greg

Why?  The primary point of the Sheridan's design was that it was amphibious.  The Israelis don't need amphibious ability in their AFVs.  Indeed, they went so far as to remove the trimboard from their M113s as soon as they received them, seeing them as unnecessary (and potentially dangerous, knowing how bad swimmers they actually are particularly when fully loaded).