Canadian Combo Interceptor Query

[Cobra]

Hey Guys, While doing some Reading, i got Inspired!!!!!! What If Avro Canada had Combined the CF-100 & the CF-105 to Create a 'Super Interceptor'? just something i've wondered about. Thought i'd pose the Q to those from the Great White North!!!!! No Offense Meant. Thanks For Looking. Dan

[Silver Fox]

I can't imagine anything from the Clunk that the Arrow could use... or didn't already have. A bubble canopy would be nice, but probably would have eventually have been installed had the Arrow gone beyond the Mk 2.

[elmayerle]

I can't imagine much of a common ground there for a combination.  I *could* see an improved CF-100 (with regard to avionics, engines, weapons, etc.) serving as a supplement to the CF-105, sort of a second line of defense as the high-speed, long-range interceptor serves as the first line.

[kitnut617]

In one of the CF-105 books I have, the leading chapter goes into detail on how the CF-105 evoloved.  There's some nice photos of the swept wing CF-100 mock-up in this chapter which might be useful to your project.  But as others have already said there's not a lot which you could carry over from the two aircraft.

My idea of a Super Interceptor would be to make the Mach 3 CF-105, maybe like this:  http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,20873.30.html

[Weaver]

Wasn't there a CF-103 swept-wing-Clunk proposed, which was canned in favour of the -105 because it would have been obsolete by the time it was built?

If they wern't going as far as the CF-105, you could maybe see Avro taking the view that if the CF-103 wasn't fast enough, what they really needed was a delta-Clunk with afterburners on the end of extended jetpipes, a delta wing and a T-tail. The result would be a bit like a Canadian Javelin (but hopefully with a thinner wing).


LOL - crossed posts with Kitnut.....

[elmayerle]

Perhaps a "Delta-Clunk" along the lines of Northrop's "Delta-Scorpion" studies?

[Weaver]

Do you think it would be possible to fit variable cones and thin lips to the exisiting intakes, or would the proximity of the fuselage cause problematic shockwave interactions?

[sideshowbob9]

Wasn't there a CF-103 swept-wing-Clunk proposed, which was canned in favour of the -105 because it would have been obsolete by the time it was built?

If they wern't going as far as the CF-105, you could maybe see Avro taking the view that if the CF-103 wasn't fast enough, what they really needed was a delta-Clunk with afterburners on the end of extended jetpipes, a delta wing and a T-tail. The result would be a bit like a Canadian Javelin (but hopefully with a thinner wing).

I was going to do it the other way round and do a Javelin with the Clunk's plank wings! I'll be watching this thread with interest as I will soon have a wingless Clunk to play with! 

[jcf]

I was going to do it the other way round and do a Javelin with the Clunk's plank wings! I'll be watching this thread with interest as I will soon have a wingless Clunk to play with! 

You may want to look at this thread:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,16717.0/highlight,gloster+glut.html

Cheers

[Silver Fox]

Backflowing some Arrow innovations into an improved Clunk could produce a valuable export fighter.

Give the Clunk the CF-103 airframe mods, Arrow avionics and an improved weapons system. Perhaps replace the gunpack with an M-61 Vulcan cannon? If Canada has the Arrow... who might be a customer for the Super Clunk? Perhaps Belgium to replace it's CF-100s? Who else can't afford a supersonic interceptor but needs the best of the previous generation?

[elmayerle]

One idea would be an Arrow or other high-speed interceptor as a QRI aircraft with an improved Clunk serving more as a radar and missile platform (similar mode to F6D-1) to backstop the first defensive line.  I can just see a clunk with turbofan engines and ealge or Phoenix missiles under the wing.

[Silver Fox]

I've been thinking about how the 'Canada in Vietnam' CF-100 Mk 6 or Mk 7 might look after being modernized.

Turbofans, new avionics and cockpits, Vulcan cannon instead of the 50's, refueling probe and maybe the Mk 6 carrying an electro-optical turret. Range with modern turbofans would be very impressive!

[elmayerle]

I've been thinking, a turbofan Clunk would be a challenge.  If you do a turbofan version of the Orenda engine, it'll have to be an aft fan design like GE's CF700 since the Orenda is a single-spool turbojet and that doesn't give you the adaptability that a twin-spool set-up does (granted, it doesn't give you the size and weight, either).  Now a scaled-down Iroquois used as the basis for a turbofan is a possibility, but it's adding a whole lot more development effort.  'Twould be interesting to see what choices Avro Canada would make there.

[Silver Fox]

Why not a standard turbofan layout?

Fan section up front and the turbine section exhaust through a tailpipe extension like the Sabre and T-Bird used.

To model it, cut the front off the existing nacelles and graft on the fan section.

[upnorth]

Backflowing some Arrow innovations into an improved Clunk could produce a valuable export fighter.

Give the Clunk the CF-103 airframe mods, Arrow avionics and an improved weapons system. Perhaps replace the gunpack with an M-61 Vulcan cannon? If Canada has the Arrow... who might be a customer for the Super Clunk? Perhaps Belgium to replace it's CF-100s? Who else can't afford a supersonic interceptor but needs the best of the previous generation?

I think better, and more likely as a replacement for the 8 guns in the bay than the M61, would be a pair of 30mm Aden cannons or possibly a quad of 20mm ones.

How much of the Arrow's avionics could be crammed into a Clunk is another matter on it's own.