Missile Guidance Systems

[DarrenP]

The usual seakers are either Radar or Thermal I do wonder what other types would be viable. Laser designation is used on some ASM and SAM it would also be used in AAM versions of starstreak. I wonder if ESM type seaker would be viable?

[JayBee]

How about ESP.
The missile homes in on the pilot's brain pattern.

JimB

[Hobbes]

Laser designation has one drawback: the laser needs to be pointed at the target until the missile impacts. With all the violent maneuvering going on, you'll need several laser designators to make sure one has a clear view at all times.

Antiradiation missiles can be fooled by switching the emitter off. For a ground-based target this isn't too big a deal, you can record the last known position and home in on that. Aircraft move too fast for that tactic to work.

[PR19_Kit]

How about ESP.
The missile homes in on the pilot's brain pattern.

Yes Jim, that should work well, I'll phone the MoD........ 

[JayBee]

How about ESP.
The missile homes in on the pilot's brain pattern.

Yes Jim, that should work well, I'll phone the MoD........ 

This does of course pre-assume that pilots have brains!

Jim

[Mossie]

UV homing.  It's possible to detect parrafin/Kerosene traces & it's break down products in the atmosphere.  You could rig a system up to detect the UV signature & follow the trail.  Practicalities might be difficult to overcome, but it's doable.  Might be an answer to stealth, you can hide a radar & thermal signature, but jet engines work by their exhaust so any effort to reduce the signature would have an effect on the engine itself.

Sound is another possibility.  Acoustic fuses were investigated in WWII, IR & radar were found to be more reliable.  Before radar, acoustic dishes were set up around the UK to the detect the sound of aircraft at a distance.  Ultrasound would work for active detection, (Bats are very good at this) although it's very directional, you'd either need an emitter that could sweep a large area rapidly, or a missile that 'jinks', widening the spread.

[Weaver]

To be precise, Starstreak isn't laser designated, it's laser beam-riding, that is to say, it isn't homing on laser reflections from the target, rather it just flies down the beam to wherever the beam is pointing. Something on the firing aircraft has to keep tracking the target and pointing the laser at it until it hits, however, if your missile has a decent warhead and proximity fuse, the beam doesn't have to be spot-on the target every second, it just has to be near enough. All sorts of things could track the target: the radar, an IR tracker, or the pilot's HMS are three things that spring to mind.

I think that one of the best approaches to new seekers is multi-spectral, i.e. IR + radar. A missile that's looking for a heat source AND a big lump of metal in the same place is going to reject a lot of the chaff/jamming/decoys currently used.

[nev]

UV homing.  It's possible to detect parrafin/Kerosene traces & it's break down products in the atmosphere.  You could rig a system up to detect the UV signature & follow the trail.  Practicalities might be difficult to overcome, but it's doable.  Might be an answer to stealth, you can hide a radar & thermal signature, but jet engines work by their exhaust so any effort to reduce the signature would have an effect on the engine itself.

No, but you could just emit a spray of a suitable chemical rather like chaff or flares

[Mossie]

True, good point!

[Slerski]

Some missiles have laser-controlled detonation but laser-designated or laser beam-riding systems can be "jammed" with heavy fog (UK product ) reflective surfaces or smoke.

UV homing seems very whiff-good but don't forget that Sun emits UV too. Older Sidewinder have the same problem with IR seekers, they prefer to lock on Sun...

Sound isn't a very good "seeking system". Works good in water (torpedoes and sonar system for example) but acoustic detection for aircraft was a complete failure.

I agree with Weaver about the new seekers. IR + EM is actually the best way to shoot down a plane.

[Shasper]

If you had an active laser seeker as opposed to semi-active (same principle as with radar guided ie Sparrow vs AMRAAM) then you'd be onto something.

In the early days both radio (either wired- or unwired guided) & electro-optical (EO) were used on various air to surface stuff like the AGM-12 Bullpup, AGM-62 Walleye, early series GBUs & the first series of Mavericks.

Dual mode (active/passive radar) or tri mode (active/passive/MMW) seekers are coming on the scene in AGMs, I dont see why these can't be applied to AAMs, likewise with GPS guidance (the new SDB series II thats in the works should provide GPS weapons the ability to hit a moving target). I do agree that radar + IR or a similar arrangement is the best way to go (like the Brit EGBU-24s, which have laser guidance plus GPS)

[Just call me Ray]

Sound isn't a very good "seeking system". Works good in water (torpedoes and sonar system for example) but acoustic detection for aircraft was a complete failure.

Not entirely. Many early-warning detection systems all the way up to 1944 or so used sound, and was mentioned it was an integral part of the British early warning system, I believe even during the Battle of Britain. There has been some dabbling in acoustic detectors for anti-stealth but aircraft designers thought of that ahead of time - stealth aircraft tend to be very quiet.

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/museum/COMMS/ear/ear.htm

[Sauragnmon]

I could imagine an Optical Seeker would be real handy... not so much a laser, as a seeker with a small camera and an airframe recognition - maybe even teach it to just map an airframe, home on a good spot and then identify the markings?  "Oh look, there's a Russian Star, let's go kill THAT" but that might be a little too advanced.  But if the FCS could be linked to means of identification, have it datalink the image to the missile and basically tell it "It's this direction, and This is what you're looking for" and have the seeker go from there.  That might be a bit of a problem if you're in a conflict where the aircraft are the same on both sides, but who knows.  Might combine well as a terminal stage to a Command Guidance package.

Similarly - Track Via Missile guidance?  Works for SAM systems, and is pretty sneaky - the biggest limiting factor is the horizon of the radar - has problem with Nape of Earth aircraft, but it's not so much of a problem when you're in a Plane per se.

Remote Guidance might be handy, but that would require, obviously, a two man plane - certainly an odd combination of UAV and Kamikaze, and it might well give new meaning to the term Weapons Systems Operator.  Unfortunately prone to human error, of course.

[Weaver]

Remote Guidance might be handy, but that would require, obviously, a two man plane - certainly an odd combination of UAV and Kamikaze, and it might well give new meaning to the term Weapons Systems Operator.  Unfortunately prone to human error, of course.

True, although it could be modified to smart-with-man-in-loop guidance, whereby the missile tries it's level best to identify and home on the target automatically, but the human controller monitors it and adjusts/corrects it when neccessary. That way you don't have the flying-towards-a-target bit dependent on human frailty, but you do have the incomparable processing power of the human mind making the which-target-to-fly-towards decision.


A few years ago, there was much talk of LADAR or laser-radar: basically a scanning laser range-finder that could map the world in it's FOV, but I havn't heard anything about it for ages now.

[Sauragnmon]

Smart-with-loop is an interesting concept, I'll agree, though the question comes to how would it detect the target.  Probably an optical scan and then target recognition software, but that's limited to how big its database would be, and might render it anti-armor.  If you could switch off the Smart package and manually direct it, then you could drop it through a window or something.

LADAR is an equally interesting concept, a very optical-radar concept, and the biggest benefit would be a blatant lack of ability for stealth to work against it - unless of course you can get some form of cloaking device.  Though, to a degree, it's got a limit in its range.  IIRC it's used mostly for mapping areas like rooms or such more currently, not sure if there's been a military exploration into it.