Urban Leo A4 - Finished!

[frank2056]

A few months ago, I got a Hobby Boss 1/35 Leo 2 A4 from Squadron. They often heavily discount models as "loss leaders" to get you to buy accessories and other non-discounted kits. It's a great way to stock up on cheap kits. This Leo was $19 - I would have preferred an A6, but for $19 (vs about $35) beggars can't be choosers!

Inspired by BuzzBomb's amazing Urban Combat Abrams M1A8 I decided to make an urban combat version of the Leo.

I remember reading about the problems the Russians had faced in Chechnya, fighting in urban settings. I figured that an urban tracked fighting vehicle would need a weapon that could put a lot of lead on a target, quickly, and be light enough to point straight up (shooting up into high rises). A minigun would fit this requirement well.
Also, the tank would need a way of clearing out a building quickly; the Russians came up with a very effective solution - the thermobaric RPG round as well as the RPO-A Shmel. The Russians even have an urban comabt version of the T-72, the BMPT. Apophenia drew a Leo A4 version of the BMPT that inspired me to make my own version.

I thought about modifying the existing A4 turret, but that seemed like a lot of extra mass. Next, I downloaded a paper version of the LAV-25 and scaled up the turret to match the turret ring on the Leo. It was OK, but not what I was looking for. Finally, I just started up Rhino 3D and quickly drew a rough idea of what I wanted. Rhino lets me unroll a surface, so it was very easy to mock everything out of heavy paper. Less than an hour later, I had this:



Here's a detail:


I added a small (25 or 30mm) cannon for punching holes into things, like the occasional lightly armored vehicle. The white plastic tube is a stand in for the cannon. On the far side is the crappy minigun and the two thermobaric RPG launchers. I'll add a crew weapon (either an MG3 or a .50 cal), hatches (including a reload hatch) and maybe a small external bustle for ammo. Also, I'll add a clearing blade to the front.

Frank

[buzzbomb]

I am humbled by you using my model as inspiration. That is the ultimate compliment.

I love this idea and really theT-72 BMPT is a great design.. why not a Leo

Bring it on !!

BT

[GTX]

Looking good - quite conceivable too if the Western forces had gotten bogged down in significant urban combat somewhere.

Regards,

Greg

[frank2056]

Thanks for the comments, guys.

Looking good Frank' but your process is fascinating too (and completely novel, at least for me!).

I've used Rhino3D to make models that are later printed in 3D, but this is the first project that I've used it as a way to design a part, unroll it, print it and use the pattern to cut parts out of paper or plastic. It's been surprisingly fast and useful. Before now, I used Canvas (a 2D CAD program), but it's getting long in the tooth and doesn't always play nice with Windows 7.

I made some progress today. Here's the 25mm (or 30mm) cannon, tower and minigun resting on the new turret:



The turret walls and top are made from styrene from a For Sale sign. The base of the turret is a thick piece of foamed PVC- a hard plastic, but it's fairly easy to cut and sand. The tower is made from two slices of the foamed PVC glued together, then skinned in styrene (from the same for sale sign). The cannon breech is from some anonymous mecha model, with some added bits.

Here's a detail of the turret:



The foamed PVC base is just a ring - I may add a partial interior - the sloping turret walls and the top of the turret are styrene. The turret ring is thick paper, but I spread some runny CA glue on the inside. It's almost like a plastic now. The tabs were to potentially hold up the roof, but I won't need it now.

I still need to add the thermobaric launcher tubes and a shield for the minigun, as well as blast shields for the launchers. I'll also cobble up a couple of imaging devices, although most of the antennas and sensors will come from the kit. I also discovered that the AFV Club M151 Remote Weapon Station kit comes with two sprues from their Stryker kit, which include hatches and other bits.

Frank

[Brian da Basher]

That's some simply amazing design work and scratchbuilding there Frank! I don't know much about AFVs, but I know what I like!

Brian da Basher

[cthulhu77]

Very nice work, indeed.  A simple idea that seems realistic ! Neat !   

[Joe C-P]

The big 120+ mm isn't that much use in modern combat; tank v. tank battles won't be that common against insurgent forces. Taking the well-protected vehicles and loading them up with multiple light, anti-personnel/anti-structure weapons is a logical adjustment to modern combat requirements.

Let's see it done!

[B777LR]

The big 120+ mm isn't that much use in modern combat; tank v. tank battles won't be that common against insurgent forces. Taking the well-protected vehicles and loading them up with multiple light, anti-personnel/anti-structure weapons is a logical adjustment to modern combat requirements.

Let's see it done!

The Danish Army is replacing the Leopard 2A5s with CV-90s. According to them, the CV-90s 35mm Bushmaster III is able to knock out any MBT at the same range of a 120mm gun.

[GTX]

The Danish Army is replacing the Leopard 2A5s with CV-90s. According to them, the CV-90s 35mm Bushmaster III is able to knock out any MBT at the same range of a 120mm gun.

From what angle and under what conditions???

Regards,

Greg

[apophenia]

The Danish Army is replacing the Leopard 2A5s with CV-90s. According to them, the CV-90s 35mm Bushmaster III is able to knock out any MBT at the same range of a 120mm gun.

The CV9035 IKK is replacing the old PMV M113A2 not the Leopard 2A5DK. The IKK are to accompany the kampvogn, not replace them. (IIRC, the first IKK deployment to Afghanistan begins next month.)

[GTX]

I was thinking about your thermobaric missiles - perhaps a thermobaric warhead version of the MBDA HOT missile would be best - if only because of the name...

Regards,

Greg

[B777LR]

The Danish Army is replacing the Leopard 2A5s with CV-90s. According to them, the CV-90s 35mm Bushmaster III is able to knock out any MBT at the same range of a 120mm gun.

The CV9035 IKK is replacing the old PMV M113A2 not the Leopard 2A5DK. The IKK are to accompany the kampvogn, not replace them. (IIRC, the first IKK deployment to Afghanistan begins next month.)

It's part of the recent plans to reduce spending. The Leopards will be gone within a few years. They tried cutting the 3rd frigate too, but the keel was already being made at that point...
That said, they are all over 11-9 years old by now, with at least 2 knocked out in Afganistan. 

[frank2056]

I had to remake the turret. The sign plastic that I used for the first one was far too thin, and was deforming under any weight or manhandling. Afrer the third popped seam, I redid it in a much thicker plastic and it's now built like...a tank.

Salt 6 - thanks for the Marder suggestion. I'll probably build up the breech end of the gun, which looks puny right now -more like a .50 cal/12.7mm than anything bigger. There's room for hatches ahead of and behind the weapons pillar. I'll see what it looks like if I more it forward or back.

[rickshaw]

The big 120+ mm isn't that much use in modern combat; tank v. tank battles won't be that common against insurgent forces. Taking the well-protected vehicles and loading them up with multiple light, anti-personnel/anti-structure weapons is a logical adjustment to modern combat requirements.

Let's see it done!

As the Canadians have discovered in Afghanistan thats a fallacy.  The 120mm tank gun (and the tank's sheer mass) is required to blow or knock holes in the massive walls that the Afghans build in and and around their compounds in the river valleys.  Those walls are up to 2 to 3 feet thick and while only made of mud brick have been found to be impervious to almost anything except the heaviest ordnance and explosive charges.

If I was designing a vehicle for MOUT, I would use either a large calibre, relatively low velocity gun - 155mm or rockets, both with laser guidance.   I'd keep the model's minigun - high volumes of fire with MMG calibre rounds (7.62x51mm) for suppression and the large calibre weapon for holing or destruction.  The thermobaric rockets are an excellent idea but there aren't sufficient of them.  You'd quickly use the four rounds provided and then have to withdraw to a relatively safe position to load them, externally.  Better to use a standard 19 round aircraft launcher.

The model's support pillar for the weapons is basically too small.  There is insufficient room in for ammunition feeds.  There also appears to be no where to mount sensors which are very important on the modern battlefield (and which allow the commander to observe from within the hull).  I'd either move the pillar to the front or the rear of the turret rather than the centre.  Rearward would help prevent the weapons' barrels snagging on overhanging objects, such as tree branches.   Forwards might allow sufficient room to have reloading hatches behind the rocket launcher (which would overcome my earlier objection).

[frank2056]

If I was designing a vehicle for MOUT, I would use either a large calibre, relatively low velocity gun - 155mm or rockets, both with laser guidance.   I'd keep the model's minigun - high volumes of fire with MMG calibre rounds (7.62x51mm) for suppression and the large calibre weapon for holing or destruction.  The thermobaric rockets are an excellent idea but there aren't sufficient of them.  You'd quickly use the four rounds provided and then have to withdraw to a relatively safe position to load them, externally.  Better to use a standard 19 round aircraft launcher.

The model's support pillar for the weapons is basically too small.  There is insufficient room in for ammunition feeds.  There also appears to be no where to mount sensors which are very important on the modern battlefield (and which allow the commander to observe from within the hull).  I'd either move the pillar to the front or the rear of the turret rather than the centre.  Rearward would help prevent the weapons' barrels snagging on overhanging objects, such as tree branches.   Forwards might allow sufficient room to have reloading hatches behind the rocket launcher (which would overcome my earlier objection).

I got rid of the 20-30mm gun; I couldn't build a believable gun. I just have the minigun and the thermobaric launchers. I'll probably add a grenade launcher as well.

The ammunition feed will be from within the turret for the minigun, similar to the gun feed for the BTVT cannon. I had the reload hatch behind the pillar - plenty of room; it's a spacious turret on a big tank - but I'll probably move it to the side and move the pillar forward a bit.

The Russian thermobaric Shmel - about the size of a LAW - could cause major and extensive damage to even well reinforced concrete buildings - at least a floor at a time - and cause total collapse of unreinforced buildings - Here's an example video from Youtube. Reloading the two rockets under fire would be an issue; I'm trying to figure a way around that. The minigun and the two rocket tubes (plus sensor platform) are light - probably under 70kg - so I may be able to add two more tubes.

The sensor package is coming; some mast mounted on the pillar or as part of the weapons head and a couple others on the turret.

Frank