Grumman VSX

[KJ_Lesnick]

In real life, Grumman acted kind of arrogantly with the VSX program basically telling the USN "Hey, give us the money, we'll make you the aircraft".  In response the USN gave the contract to Lockheed virtually out of spite.

If Grumman wasn't so arrogant, what kind of VSX design would they have produced?  Would they have used similar systems or electronics to the design that Lockheed/Vought used on S-3? 


KJ Lesnick
BTW:  What kind of effect do you think it would have had on Grumman's TFX program?

[Shasper]

I wasn't aware that Grumman had a TFX program, afaik they're involvement with that brief moment of genius was the Bravo 111. I dont think what happened here would've affected the F-14 or anything else Grumman had in the works, but that it was more of spreading the projects around instead of having Bethpaige monopolize NAVAIR.

[KJ_Lesnick]

GTX,

I'm sorry I meant VFX, not TFX

[GTX]

 

[Shasper]

*scratches forehead*

[PanzerWulff]

WTF,VSX,TFX??? Alphabet Soup confusion IDK,FUBAR,PDQ!!! ROFLMFAO
"Panzer"

[Jeffry Fontaine]

If memory serves me right, this was a discussion topic over on the Secret Projects forum. 

where is that beating a dead horse emoticon when you really need it...

[PR19_Kit]

VFX was the programme that resulted in the S-3 Viking.

As for Grumman's response, I built it...........

'It's a Grumman S-4B Sentinal. The original S-4A was built in competition to Lockheed's S-3 Viking and when the S-3 ran into problems the USN asked Grumman to upgrade the S-4 improve its performance, which is why it's been their main anti-submarine aircraft to this day.........  

The model is a real Spares Box Special, the fuselage obviously coming from a E-2 Hawkeye, with a fin and ECM fairing from an EF-111 Sparkvark, which in turn supports the 1/144 scale Boeing 767 tailplane. Revell also provided the engines, from an A330 this time, and the u/c fairings came from an Airfix 1/48 Tornado. The u/c wells and cockpit interiors came from a Hobbycraft MV-22, and the u/c itself from an old Fujumi 1/80 scale F-8 Crusader. The best bits are the wings, which were donated by a Hawk 1/126 scale Convair 880 and turned upside down to give a supercritical wing section.

The 880 also provided the fuselage extension, but this time the right way up.'

The notes above come from last years Milton Keynes show thread, where someone asked about the piccie of the Sentinal that Our Glorious Leader posted.

[PanzerWulff]

Ahhhh ok VFX now cleared up,Sorry about my early morning case of the Sillies that prompted the Alphabet insanity above
"Panzer"

[ysi_maniac]

That model is wonderful!

[PR19_Kit]

Glad you like it ysi, I've posted the back story in 'Alternative History' just now.

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,27078.msg403030.html#msg403030

[Daryl J.]

Now that's a Kitbash!   

We wanna see more.   :-)



Daryl J., also quite curious about this whole VSX thing. 

[GTX]

Nice work!

Regards,

Greg

[KJ_Lesnick]

I only asked this question twice because nobody gave me any answers the last time.  Another question to ask would be if Grumman created the VSX (The S-3 design), would it have made it more likely for the VFX (F-14) to have fallen to McDonnell? 

[MAD]

I only asked this question twice because nobody gave me any answers the last time.  Another question to ask would be if Grumman created the VSX (The S-3 design), would it have made it more likely for the VFX (F-14) to have fallen to McDonnell? 

My friend I both hear and understand what you are saying!!
It should be noted that the U.S navy was notorious for deciding on who got contracts to Request For Proposals (RFP's) based on which of 'their' traditional favored aerospace / aircraft company's were in need of work at a given time and not due to which submission was the best for the job!
It has always had me tossed as to how Grumman - without doubt the most favored aircraft company of the U.S Navy - after all its contract from the F4F Wildcat to the F-14 Tomcat, was able to say that it was near broke and close to being out of the aircraft business.
As to your question of McDonnell wining the VFX (F-14) competition over that of the Grumman G        . I very much doubt it, for Grumman had the 100% backing of the U.S Navy 'top brass', when it had gone along with the Navy's plan to kill its involvement in the TFX (F-111B) program!
Grumman was the prim contractor to General Dynamics in making the F-111B carrier compatible.
It was Grumman's insight and knowledge into the TFX program, which lead it to offer the initial unsolicited G-303 (F-14 Tomcat), which both excited and encouraged the U.S Navy to carry out the clear and obvious F-111B assassination!

I have always been a F-111 fan!
Loving both its technology (VG wings, TFR.....), range and warload
But I have always preferred the actual USAF and USN's preferred choice - the Boeing Model 818 - which itself was picked for political (The infamous Robert McNamara and other senators!) reasons rather than true military want and capability!
So for this reason in my own silly and irrelevant way - have little sympathy for Grumman sticking it to General Dynamics with their abandonment of the F-111B in favor of their own G-303 design.
Grumman was always going to be awarded the VFX by the USN for its part and risk it took in helping give the Navy a reason to build an all-Navy aircraft - as opposed to a force Joint USAF/USN TFX

I hope this answers some of your question

P.S I must say it is poor old Vought/LTV that I feel pity for!
Somewhere and somehow for reasons I do not completely understand (although I surmise its legal challenge it took against the US Navy over its loss of the VFAX competition, with its joint Vought/General Dynamics Model 1600/1601 navalized F-16 Fighting falcon! - the design that many would say that Vought/General Dynamics should have won - if it had not been for the same tactics and meddling with the US Navy employed in the TFX program to both kill the F-111B, whilst pushing for the Grumman G-303 design!!!)
A great specialized carrier-based aircraft designer, who's innovation often more times than not produced a far cheaper and effective aircraft to a given design requirement in a smaller, lighter and often cheaper package!

M.A.D