Wide Body Avro Atlantic

[kitnut617]

You're going to have to try harder than that to make us stop praising you

I've expanded on what I'm going to do with these tailpipes, I want them to look a little more realistic if anyone should take a look up inside them.  A lot of 1/72 kits only show rudimental turbine blades and usually undersized too, so after doing a little research, I realized I have to make a small cone at the front of the tailpipe. This is to make it appear that the engine is bigger in diameter than the tailpipe.

According to wikipedia, the Olympus 301 was 47 3/4" diameter and 280" long, this seems to match what I can see in the cutaway drawing of the Vulcan B.2. It also seems to match the Airfix kit wings of the B.2 if I measure from just behind the airbrakes to the rear of the bomb bay (which is also the rear spar location).  As I've briefly explained for my back-story, this model will be a Canadian variant based on a proposed Olympus 301 powered Atlantic C.5 and using a non-afterburning Orenda Iroquois. This engine was a bit smaller than the Olympus 301 though, again wikipedia says it was 42" diameter and 231" long, but here's a puzzling thing I've noticed, this includes the afterburner and the Olympus 301 was a non-afterburning engine.  I'm not sure if these dimensions are correct because looking in my 'Arrowhead' book, it doesn't really give any engine dimensions to verify wikipedia.  Anyway, what it means is the non-afterburning Iroquois would be even shorter than the 231" ( the Iroquois had 19,250 lbs dry thrust BTW, nearly matching the 301's 20,000 lbs)

In this pair of pics, you can see the small cone I've soldered onto the front end, also you can see small pieces of tubing that is used to space the outer pipe from the inner pipe,




And in these two pics you can see the outer pipe being slid over the spacers up to the cone.




Now what I'm going to do is cut out some turbine blade ring with an 'onion' placed in the middle, I've noticed that when I cut styrene card with scissors it twists the part that has been cut and trying it out on a test piece found it looked quite like a turbine blade ring.

This is the test piece.



And looking down the tailpipe

[jcf]

Hi Robert,
unlike the Olympus series, the Iroquois was an integral afterburner design, so OAL dimensions
will include the afterburner.  Volume 2 of Antony Kay's Turbojet: History and Development 1930-1960,
confirms the Iroquois dimensions quoted on Wikipedia.

Jane's ATWA 1968-69 gives a diameter of 44.5" and length of 128" for the Olympus 301 as mounted on the Vulcan B. Mk.2.
Interestingly the Olympus 101 of the B. Mk.1 was the same length, but only 40.9" diameter.

The Wikipedia numbers are, sort-of, the dimensions of the Olympus 593 with afterburner, not the Olympus 301.
Jane's gives an intake diameter of 47.85" and a length (intake flange to exhaust flange) of 148.4" for the 593 without
afterburner.

[kitnut617]

Hi Jon, I knew I could rely on some actual facts from someone here.  Problem is I've got a problem with those figures for the Olympus 301, they just don't tie in with what I see in the 3-View or on the Airfix kit's wing



I think that 128" is a bit suspect, as is the 145"

[jcf]

Hi Robert,
the Olympus lengths from the Jane's are inline with other sources. Flight for 29 August, 1963
quotes a length of 131 inches for the 301:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1963/1963%20-%201594.html

Note that, generally speaking, a quoted length dimension is for the engine only, and does not include exhaust piping,
mounting flanges or other installation unique factors.

The Jane's has a photo of Olympus 593s being assembled vertically and based on the guys standing next to them the
flange-to-flange length is believable.

Edit: here is the photo:

[kitnut617]

Hi Jon,

Hmm! that would put the end of the engine about in between numbers 40 and 42/43.  That also makes the tail pipe nearly 27 feet long  

Considering the timeline of that article in Flight, how much of that do you think is dis-information

[jcf]

Hi Jon,

Hmm! that would put the end of the engine about in between numbers 40 and 42/43.  That also makes the tail pipe nearly 27 feet long  

Considering the timeline of that article in Flight, how much of that do you think is dis-information

I doubt that any of it is disinformation, as the basic Olympus had been around since the late forties and details had been published since the early to mid-50s.

The Flight cutaway is from the bottom and shows the engine bay hatches:


This Flight article has a good shot of the 301 with mounting brackets:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1961/1961%20-%200233.html

[kitnut617]

Very interesting Jon, it would seem then my tailpipes are w-a-a-a-y too short 

[kitnut617]

Actually, after studying that underside cutaway view, I can see that the engine bay doors end at about where that truss structure starts at the end of the rib that separates the two engines.  I'm actually not far off that point ---hmm! slight modification is required -- 

[giraffeboy]

Wow ! Great work I love your fuselage forming technique - will have to try it sometime. by the way, what would be the cruising speed of the aircraft? It reminds me a bit of Boeing's Sonic cruiser  

[kitnut617]

I would imagine it would have about the same speed as the Vulcan giraffeboy, about 600 mph.  From what I've read the Victor was the only V-Bomber to be able to go supersonic, although it would have been in a slight dive when it did that.  I haven't read anywhere that the Vulcan could do the same.

[Pablo1965]

This is going well, I continue follow closely this thread,  I am fascinated by this plane. 

[The Wooksta!]

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,17715.0

[kitnut617]

This is going well, I continue follow closely this thread,  I am fascinated by this plane. 

Not much progress at the moment Pablo, summer break --- if you can call it that, 4 acres of grass to keep cut, re-doing the fencing to make it easier to cut the grass and then upgrading insulation in the house walls to R20 value. Then my 'pay-the-bills' job has gone ballistic, so much work coming in at the moment it's getting ridiculous.

[kitnut617]

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,17715.0

Got you covered there back in post #57 Lee ---- 

[Pablo1965]

This is going well, I continue follow closely this thread,  I am fascinated by this plane. 

Not much progress at the moment Pablo, summer break --- if you can call it that, 4 acres of grass to keep cut, re-doing the fencing to make it easier to cut the grass and then upgrading insulation in the house walls to R20 value. Then my 'pay-the-bills' job has gone ballistic, so much work coming in at the moment it's getting ridiculous.

I also have a summer break, but with my family in the beach, you know, my wife, his mother,my doughter,  can I help you with your work? I need relax.