Wide Body Avro Atlantic

[Thorvic]

Thanks guys,

Kit, as Simon has eluded to, they're part of the Flightpath Vulcan B1 conversion.  The fellow who I contacted who gave me all my info (well 99% of it) told me that had the Atlantic gone ahead it would have got whatever the Vulcan got for wings. This fellow BTW, worked in the Avro drafting office and had actually done quite a bit of the drawings found in the official brochures the Air Ministry received.  Unfortunately, he died a couple of years ago so my direct line with the source has evaporated.

Simon, I don't know if Flightpath modified they masters since you got hold of your conversion, because I can't see I will have a problem fixing the edges to the wing, they have quite a big step to the mating surfaces, top and bottom.  I did get this conversion about 10 years ago though ---

Robert, I got mine a couple of years ago and they look the same as yours.  They've got a substantial step, but it's a long section that's removed from the wing which tends to flex slightly even with the location "tab", which over time popped the insert slightly, cracking the filler.  I'm a bit heavy handed and tend to handle my models a lot so you might not have the same problem, but if you do I'd suggest popping them out, packing the gap and also giving a mating surface to bind to, possibly even pinning it.  With mine, I'm probably going to have to put a very thin plasticard shim over the top and blend it in as it continues to happen despite packing the gap.

Sorry to come in late.  Hopefully you won't have the same problem.

I'll keep it in mind Simon, they're not glued in yet.  For the Vulcan B.1 though, the wing tip end of the resin is the new wing tip location, but mine will have the wing extension you see in my pics, maybe with that it won't 'pop' apart so easily.

Might be an idea to add a spar going aft from the replacement leading edges to give the wing stiffness and remove the flex in the plastic when grasped too to tightly which sounds to be the crux of Mossies issue. A bulkhead in the wing would stop the flex and remove the stress from the resin join.

Anyway looking forward to seeing the Atlantic progress 

[Captain Canada]

How quickly we ( ahem, I ) forget ! That's a lot of work Robert but it's going to be worth it !

[kitnut617]

I've worked out how my 4-Wheel trucks will be like ---

First, you need to see how the retraction operation works, I found this excellent video which shows exactly what happens when the u/c retracts (or extends) to understand what I changed and why I changed it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ypGN0iREE

[kitnut617]

Here's some pics of the standard wheel truck compared to the new 4-Wheel set up, I was going to use some Boeing 737 wheels but they were just too big so ended up using some Nimrod wheels from the Airfix kit (I managed to screw-up the Aircraft in Miniature white metal set I had originally started to use)

[kitnut617]

Here's a side view of the modified wheel bay,



And here's how the new truck sits in the bay,



But really it would look like this except the small hydraulic cylinder should lie parallel to the oleo leg, and because my model will be posed on it's undercarriage, the oleo is not retracted in this pic which means the leg hinge isn't where it would be.

[The Wooksta!]

You'll need to change the sit of the u/c further - the Vulcan has a tail down attitude and it's built into the kit parts.

[Captain Canada]

Nice work Robert ! \

[NARSES2]

Nice work Robert ! \

Just a bit 

[PR19_Kit]

I've worked out how my 4-Wheel trucks will be like ---

First, you need to see how the retraction operation works, I found this excellent video which shows exactly what happens when the u/c retracts (or extends) to understand what I changed and why I changed it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ypGN0iREE

Well that's wrecked my afternoon.

After that linked vid I just let Youtube run, and as a result I'll be watching '558 vids all day now! 

[kitnut617]

Thanks guys, I need to keep going on this but been pre-occupied with the new job

You'll need to change the sit of the u/c further - the Vulcan has a tail down attitude and it's built into the kit parts.

Yes you're right the Vulcan does  ---- but the Atlantic doesn't.  That's because all the wing incidence is set differently in the Atlantic fuselage  ---

But my intention is to go with the earlier nose u/c leg which comes in the B.1 conversion, it's supposed to be longer but I haven't check it yet

[kitnut617]

OK, here's an explanation on what I came up with for the 4-wheel truck.

In the youtube video, you can see what happens almost at the same time, the oleo is retracted to it's shortest length and at the same time the small cylinder extends to it's maximum. This then makes the axles in the truck lie almost in line with the center of the oleo.  So what happens is, the rear wheels end up at the front of the wheel bay as the u/c leg retracts. Now if you look at the pic of the modified wheel bay, you'll see in the top-right corner it has a bit of a chamfer, well in real life this is the front wing spar cutting across the corner of the bay. What this means is that I can't extend the wheel bay forward to except the larger wheels, so what I did was to leave the center of the rear axle right where it was on the short swing arm it is in, but then move the u/c leg hinge backwards so the larger diameter of the new wheels clears the forward end of the bay. In the pic you can see that I extended the bay backwards by adding an additional wheel bay door hinge spaced off exactly the same as the others are spaced. This moved the leg hinge enough to except the larger wheel diameter and in a couple of 'cut-away' drawings I have from Flight Global, I found that the u/c hinge is attached to a short spar and that this spar can be moved backwards without affecting the structure of the wing too much

But then there wasn't enough space between the front axle and the rear axle for the bigger wheels, so I moved the front axle from it's position directly under the oleo center, to a point just in front of the oleo.  What this does when the gear is retracted is position the front wheels (at the rear end of the bay) higher in the bay. There's enough room on the chord depth to do this.

Now all I have to do is add some extra to the wheel bay doors

[Mossie]

Yes, the B.1 conversion has the earlier longer leg.  IIRC, Avro did seriously consider four wheel bogies for later models of the Vulcan so you're on very firm ground.

[kitnut617]

Yes, the B.1 conversion has the earlier longer leg.  IIRC, Avro did seriously consider four wheel bogies for later models of the Vulcan so you're on very firm ground.

Thanks for that Simon,

I forgot to mention, by moving the leg hinge backwards and then extending the front axle forward, it only moves the load cg of the truck backwards slightly, which can be accounted for by the placement of the wing to the fuselage.

[Thorvic]

Mastercasters do a resin replacement wheel set for the Airfix Nimrod BTW

[kitnut617]

Mastercasters do a resin replacement wheel set for the Airfix Nimrod BTW

That's what I thought Geoff, but thanks for the confirmation