Valiant

[Thorvic]

I just bought the latest Airfix Mag, which contains the last part of the article on the RW aircraft, mostly about the B2 and the later low level operations, and also a build report on the kit itself.

When I looked through the mag in the shop before buying it I could have SWORN I saw a piccie and a small news item about a forthcoming upgrade set from Airfix to build the PR and tanker versions. The pic showed the actual sprues, bomb bay doors with camera ports and hose-reels to fit the rear of the bomb bay. But now I've got the mag home I've been through it 3-4 times and I can't find the item!! 

Please someone tell me I wasn't dreaming.

P6 in Latest Updates of Sept2011 edition 

[PR19_Kit]

I just bought the latest Airfix Mag, which contains the last part of the article on the RW aircraft, mostly about the B2 and the later low level operations, and also a build report on the kit itself.

When I looked through the mag in the shop before buying it I could have SWORN I saw a piccie and a small news item about a forthcoming upgrade set from Airfix to build the PR and tanker versions. The pic showed the actual sprues, bomb bay doors with camera ports and hose-reels to fit the rear of the bomb bay. But now I've got the mag home I've been through it 3-4 times and I can't find the item!! 

Please someone tell me I wasn't dreaming.

P6 in Latest Updates of Sept2011 edition 

Phew, I wasn't dreaming after all, thanks so much. 

It turned out pages 6-7 were stuck together down one edge, and I'd been flicking right past the piccie. Looks rather good, doesn't it?

[GTX]

Rickshaw - Greg (GTX) has provided a link in the past to the RAAF studies about the Canberra Replacement programme where they compared the A-5C Vigilante and the proposed TFX and the TSR.2 and the proposed mission profile that they hoped the aircraft would fly against the PRC.  The Vigilante was the worse of the three.  So while some may have favoured it, I don't think it was a serious contender, any more than the Mirage IV was.

Hey I must have missed this   
I would be very interested in seeing this!! Any idea where I can find this Rickshaw (or for that matter Greg)?

M.A.D

I know the one referred to, but do you think I can find it again.

[GTX]

Couldn't find the previous mentioned file, though in searching the National Archives of Australia, I did find two very interesting files:

• Selection of a Strike/Reconnaissance Aircraft as replacement for the Canberras of the RAAF
• Report of the Evaluation Team on a strike/ reconnaisance aircraft for the RAAF, Department of Air, August 1963

If you look, both of these have full electronic copies available for viewing.  The aircraft considered are the F4C and RF4C, Mirage IVA, RA5C, TSR2, TFX (F111).  There is also some correspondence etc related to interim aircraft pending the F-111 arrival.  The aircraft discussed are the B-47, V-bombers, F-4C and Blackburn Buccaneer.

Enjoy.

EDIT:  Folks, I notice the links may not totally work now.  All is good though, just click the "National Archives of Australia" link at the top then choose the "Search now – as a guest" Option and then enter the search term "Selection of a Replacement Strike/Reconnaissance Aircraft".  The two files you want are those with this symbol:
.

Regards,

Greg

[TsrJoe]

cheers for the links, itll be good to read the files from over there, as you probably realise the PRO./TNA. files here at Kew are pretty much from a UK. centrepoint, all helps build up a picture of the thought processes at the time.

The initial TSR.2 files here re the RAAF. predate TFX., the US. type appearing in later discussions due to the British aircrafts overruns enabling GD. to pitch the F.111 as being viable for late 60's delivery. In this regard there seems to be two distinct paper evaluation phases against existing types, pre TFX. (ie. TSR.2 which regard the RAAF. it seems werent totally convinced over due to the RAF.'s hesitancy in comitting to the type!) and again when the F.111 was up for consideration. The interim types being offered again probably reflecting the periods covered ?

many thanks, Joe

[Leading Observer]

The ever reliable Wikipedia says "as the Valiant's wing spar attachment castings showed premature fatiguing and inter-crystalline corrosion traced to the use of an inappropriate type of aluminium alloy. Rather than proceeding with an expensive rebuilding program, the Valiant was formally retired in 1965". What if Vickers had used the "right" type of aluminium alloy? How long would the Valiant continued in service? Would we have seen it still in service in 1982? Could it have been used instead of the Vulcan on the Black Buck missions?

[The Wooksta!]

No, more likely it would have continued in the tanker role.  Victor may have been retained as a bomber but I'd suspect one or other type would have been axed simply to cut costs.

One little known fact.  When the Valiants were being scrapped due to the wings falling off, then entire Hastings fleet went through the Handley page works at Radlet and were re-sparred.  Make of that what you will.

[Leading Observer]

Thanks Wooksta, that makes sense. In the end it all comes down to the bean counters

One little known fact.  When the Valiants were being scrapped due to the wings falling off, then entire Hastings fleet went through the Handley page works at Radlet and were re-sparred.  Make of that what you will.

Far be it from me to suggest anything untoward, but I wonder who supervised the tendering process for that contact?

[The Wooksta!]

The Valiant bombers would have continued in service as a low level bomber until the mid 70s as we'd have to meet our NATO commitments - it's forced withdrawal led to some embarassment and a hole in NATO planning.

[Leading Observer]

Stil, as this is "What If", rather than real world, for the sake of argument, lets suppose the Vulcan suffers the fatigue problems, and we can have Black Buck Victors supported by Valiant tankers

[The Wooksta!]

TBH, I've planned to finish the Mach Poo kit as a Valiant tanker in Hemp for quite a while, although given A: my lack of modelling mojo at present and B: a pre-occupation with Spitfires and finally C: the sheer horribleness of the kit, it may be a while before I finish it.

Although it'll be wheels up in flight, possibly refuelling something (tempted with a Lightning F6a), because I really just want it built and the less faffing about I have to do with it, the better.

[PR19_Kit]

One little known fact.  When the Valiants were being scrapped due to the wings falling off, then entire Hastings fleet went through the Handley page works at Radlet and were re-sparred.  Make of that what you will.

Maybe because there was an alternative 'Valiant' available in the Victors and Vulcans, whereas there wasn't an alternative 'Hastings'? The Beverlys could handle the heavy freight, and the Britannias the passengers but there wasn't anything in the middle.

[Weaver]

How about the RAF switch production of the Valiant over to the reinforced B.2 version in the mid 1950s when they realise that low level is the way to go?

[McColm]

TBH, I've planned to finish the Mach Poo kit as a Valiant tanker in Hemp for quite a while, although given A: my lack of modelling mojo at present and B: a pre-occupation with Spitfires and finally C: the sheer horribleness of the kit, it may be a while before I finish it.

Although it'll be wheels up in flight, possibly refuelling something (tempted with a Lightning F6a), because I really just want it built and the less faffing about I have to do with it, the better.

That's why I'm kitbashing mine.

[rickshaw]

I've been rather surprised there hasn't been a B.2 conversion set created for the Airfix Valiant...