P-3, CP-140, Electra

SebastianP · October 08, 2007, 04:24:22 PM

Props went out of fashion with the end of WWII. The P-3C is a prop aircraft. Ergo, the P-3C is a WWII aircraft...

To fit in with other aircraft of the time, it will of course have to be modified. I'm thinking it at least needs a glass nose, to accomodate a bombardier - or maybe the bombardier sits in the cockpit and has a periscope for manual bomb aiming.

The sonobuouy dispenser must of course be turned into an aft bomb bay, and the area between the wing roots is a good place to put a belly turret. Likewise, it needs waist and tail guns - not certain there's a use for a dorsal turret.

The scheme would naturally include invasion stripes, if for no other reason than that it looks cool...

(I'm unlikely to actually attempt this, since I no longer have my old messed up B-17, but the general arrangement just struck me as a perfect kitbash opportunity. How well it would fly is a completely different story, though...)

SP

Jeffry Fontaine · October 08, 2007, 08:57:57 PM

Hi Sebastian, you are certainly proposing some very radical changes to the P-3.

I would have to argue about propellers being out of fashion as they do have some use even today on cargo aircrft with certain performance requirements. I was going to try and upgrade one of my P-3 kits with the propellers from the Italeri C-130J just to make it look better. I actually had them set aside for such a purpose until some silver tongued devil talked me out of the kit and the propellers claiming he really wanted to do that very same thing. So I am in the process of trying to find another set of spare C-130J propellers at the moment.

Your suggestions for adding a bombadier nose and gun turrets certainly does bear a second look, if not in model form, perhaps as a WHIF profile from one of the artists that are frequenting this forum.

elmayerle · October 08, 2007, 09:17:39 PM

If I could safely trim structural weight elsewhere, the mod I'd be tempted to make is to restore the lost length and bring the P-3 main fuselage length up to that of the Electra (ISTR that Lockheed removed ten feet or so of forward fuselage). There's a lot that could be done with this extra volume. I rather suspect that a redesign of the fuselage to use modern manufacturing methods (large sections with machined stringers and frames rather than pieced together structure covered in skins is the most obvious improvement that high-speed machining makes).

As for engine/propeller changes, using the items from the C-130J makes a lot of sense, as well as a full range of equipment upgrades. I don't know that I'd replace the sonobuoy chutes with an aft weapons bay, that's really getting far enough aft that the cg shift on weapons release would be a right pain to deal with. Extending the forward fuselage and weapons bay would make more sense. If you were going to add turrets, I'd go with the remote barbettes as used by the B-29 et al. rather than individual manned turrets, though you might want to consider a manned tail gunner position.

SebastianP · October 09, 2007, 02:45:20 AM

Oh man, I used to own a C-130J kit - it was missing too many pieces and was just too big to keep when I moved a few years ago, so it got thrown out...

On the other hand, IIRC the engines of the -130J are a lot bigger than the ones on the P-3, so I'm not sure the props would fit.

About the aircraft trim, what about moving the belly turret to the position of the sonobuoy unit and extending the forward fuselage (I've got two kits! Ph34r!). Also, the P-3 has comparatively huge interior spaces (vis-a-vis a B-17 at least), and you could probably shift the radio room etc pretty far back if you wanted.

This is all still very hypothetical, though - one of my two kits is definitely going to end up in the boxtop scheme (low-vis JMSDF!) and the other is earmarked for my German collection...

SP

elmayerle · October 11, 2007, 09:38:28 AM

The P-3 and earlier versions of the C-130 both use the Allison T56. The engines on the C-130J are a direct replacement for these and should fit the P-3 with no problem. You may have to do some mod work on the nacelles, but the basic fit is there.

kitnut617 · October 11, 2007, 10:23:17 AM

You can get engines, spinners and props here:
http://www.theaviationworkshop.co.uk/page7/page7.html
when this opens keep clicking the right hand arrow till you find the C-130J engine set.

or drop Jen on ARC a line as she makes these too. Her ARC Username is Desmojen.

Mind you looking at the set I bought off her, the set on the Aviation Workshop site look very similar.

Robert

Captain Canada · October 11, 2007, 10:39:42 AM

If you're going WWII bomber for your P-3...how about radials ? Would look really cool with turrets and RAF camo......go for it !

Jeffry Fontaine · October 11, 2007, 10:48:51 AM

QuoteIf you're going WWII bomber for your P-3...how about radials ? Would look really cool with turrets and RAF camo......go for it !

You mean like the Argonaut/Northstar or the CP-107 Argus?

Archibald · October 12, 2007, 12:32:58 AM

Why not mighty Northrop Turbodynes ? so powerfull (8000 to 10 000 hp!) that you only need two of them

(

GTX · October 12, 2007, 12:51:48 PM

QuoteThe engines on the C-130J are a direct replacement for these and should fit the P-3 with no problem

Except for the similar problems that would possibly be encountered when LM replaced the T-56s on the C-130 with AE2100s - sorry for the real world interlude.

Regards,

Greg

elmayerle · October 12, 2007, 06:44:06 PM

QuoteWhy not mighty Northrop Turbodynes ? so powerfull (8000 to 10 000 hp!) that you only need two of them

Yeah, but rather large engines compared to the T56, or just the wing chord of the P-3. The T56 represents at least two generations more of technological developement. If you really want only two engines, use two T54s (The T54 is to the T56 as the XT40 was to the XT38).

SebastianP · November 16, 2007, 03:38:35 AM

I still haven't gotten around to building that pair of P-3 kits, but I've been bashing around some more ideas for them instead. One came up while assembling the A-6E:

Cut out about an inch of the fuselage fore and aft of the wing, plus the outboard engine. Use the cut in the wing to create a wingfold, and add a tailhook aft of the sonobuoy dispensers. With a pair of multi-bladed props and a scratchbuilt Erieye air search radar, presto next-gen carrier AEW&C.

Use the cut out fuselage sections to extend the other P-3 kit, for a stretch P-3, and the engines together with a larger-scale WWII fighter to make a twin-turboprop fighter....

SP

Daryl J. · November 26, 2007, 02:37:11 PM

Make them all-new manufacture after getting an all new electronics suite.

Herc. multiblade props, winglets, some external underwing or underbelly heavy duty antishipping munitions. Subtle changes yes?

Daryl J.

Captain Canada · November 26, 2007, 03:50:28 PM

Good ideas, Daryl....and replace the MAD boom with some kind of radome like that Nimrod project.......replace the MAD with some kind of towed aparatus.

Jeffry Fontaine · June 22, 2008, 01:54:59 PM

Quote from: Captain Canada on November 26, 2007, 03:50:28 PMGood ideas, Daryl....and replace the MAD boom with some kind of radome like that Nimrod project.......replace the MAD with some kind of towed aparatus.

For what its worth, the P-3 is equipped with a radar under the MAD boom in that ever-so-slightly bulged section of the rear fuselage. The purpose of this antenna is to allow continuous radar coverage of an area during maneuvering of the aircraft so as to not lose radar track of a target. This information comes from personal experience with the aircraft on Adak NAS when I was afforded the opportunity work with the resident VP squadron AIMD and had an opportunity to really get to know the P-3C.