He 115 over New York

[raafif]

Germany attacks the USA !!!

Well, one US newspaper at the time thought it possible & did a story on it.  It included at least 2 drawings -- one showing FW-200 Condors landing at an airport & another showing what looks like 2 He-111s with push-pull engine arrangements bombing a factory.

A sneak attack would probably use large captured allied aircraft -- KG-200 had B-17s, B-24s, one Short Stirling & *could* have had as many as 5 Lancasters.

One Lancaster landed wheels-down and four bellylanded in repairable state but only one Lanc was repaired (by Lufthansa) & flown to Rechlin for trials on nightfighters using radar to attack bombers dropping window.  KG-200 NEVER flew with allied markings -- always had German crosses (Britain is the only nation that actually DID breach the Geneva convention in that way -- ex-Norwegian He-115 in the Med..)
Germany relied on shape & cam for deception.

Love the idea

[tigercat]

So the tales of strange allegedly captured  Liberators lurking in the bomber stream are a mixture of urban legend , airmans paranoia and fiction writers imagination?

A unit like KG 200 it bound to gather its own myths and legends over time

I'm suprised the Allied equivalent the RAfwaffe hasn't got nearly as much attention not even fictionally.

I think theres 1 Jack Higgins book where they use captured German Kit but I haven't come across much else.

[NARSES2]

I'm suprised the Allied equivalent the RAfwaffe hasn't got nearly as much attention not even fictionally.

Probably because it's still classified, and will stay that way until the last of those involved pass on. After all Bletchley Park remained a remarkable secret until fairly recently. The UK tended to be quite good at keeping it's "dirty" secrets, secret and probably still is.

[tigercat]

I was under the impression that it was mostly evaluation and testing but maybe  it was more which goes to show that the veil of secrecy was working .

[NARSES2]

You may well be right Tigercat, but living near the old Croydon Airport there is a nice story about a Lufthansa Ju 52 and 3/09/39 

[raafif]

yeah, much of the Allied stuff is still classified but out there if you know where to look - who to ask -- my cousin can tell much of what went on in his patch in the 1970's but what he really wants is to see his KGB file.

The Bletchley Park grounds was officially "secret" till recently but 99% of info was known by 1970.

[NARSES2]

yeah, much of the Allied stuff is still classified but out there if you know where to look - who to ask -- my cousin can tell much of what went on in his patch in the 1970's but what he really wants is to see his KGB file.

The Bletchley Park grounds was officially "secret" till recently but 99% of info was known by 1970.

Agreed it does get out but you have to wait longer for the "Official" histories, which of course quite often contradict the "unofficial" ones 

Anyway the 70's is "fairly recently" in historical terms, is when you get to my age anyway 

[tigercat]

Tease

What was the Junkers up to?


~*~

Are there any other aircraft with similar silhouettes?

Do 17 and Hampden  would be similar and of course to the Merchant Navy everything looked like a german although  you can hardly blame them

[raafif]

Captured bombers formating on US bombers was paranoia (a US specialty from Pearl Harbor to today) which caused friendly-fire incidents.

Maybe if the Allies had captured a Ju-390, they may have used it over Germany ?

How about a BV-222 painted up like a visiting Sunderland or a version of the Mariner / Mars ?? less support needed & greater payload.

[NARSES2]

Tease

What was the Junkers up to?

Well with the declaration of war Lufthansa sent a Ju 52 to pick up the German Embassy staff from Croydon Airport (I'm a Croydon lad). The embassy staff came down from London (I think they have 36 hours to leave the country under whatever international treaties govern these things) and the pilot of the Ju filed his flight plan. On going back out to the aircraft he had a flat tyre. Now rather unsportingly not much assistance was offered by the airport staff so after the crew had fixed the tyre, enough time had elapsed that they had to file a new flight plan. Now lo and behold when they came out to go to the aircraft the other tyre was flat ! After fixing this one they again went to flight control and as they came out to take off, one of the propellers was missing  With the time to leave the country running out the Embassy staff and crew were taken to Dover on a special train and then taken to France on a RN Destroyer before returning to Germany.

The Ju52 was used on clandestine ops for the rest of WWII 

This story comes from a friend of my fathers who was working at the Airport as a mechanic at the time and would only add that in the days before war was declared they aquired a couple of extra mechanics who had a stong military bearing about them  It was a well know story in Croydon whilst I was growing up in the 50's, as to the absolute truth of the story I honestly don't know, but there's more of a grain in it and it's a good one 

The Germans meanwhile behaved absolutely impecably when it came to returning the UK diplomats from Berlin.

[Propellerhead]

Captured bombers formating on US bombers was paranoia (a US specialty from Pearl Harbor to today) which caused friendly-fire incidents.

Maybe if the Allies had captured a Ju-390, they may have used it over Germany ?

How about a BV-222 painted up like a visiting Sunderland or a version of the Mariner / Mars ?? less support needed & greater payload.

France was operating large flying boats to New York before the war.

http://www.tstsy.com/2010/06/10/latecoere-521-lieutenant-of-paris-flying-boat/

In fact the Potez C.A.M.S. 161 flying boat was intended to operate just such a mission with Bf-109 floatplane connected to it's roof as a mistel attack aircraft. I am unclear which aircraft was to deliver the final attack?


The flying boat however was destroyed at lake Constance by allied air raid.

[cafe]

The other 2 projects in the last pre-war transatlantic seaplanes program were the Sud-Est SE 200 and the Laté 631. The prototypes of all 3 were confiscated by the germans and later destroyed during that allied raid on lake Constance.

[trekaddict]

*snip*

Would you mind if I used that in my AAR over on paradox?

[NARSES2]

I assume you are talking about the Ju 52 incident Trek ? If so by all means. As I've said I honestly don't know how true it is or not

[trekaddict]

I assume you are talking about the Ju 52 incident Trek ? If so by all means. As I've said I honestly don't know how true it is or not

The Ju-52 incident indeed. British cheek at it's finest methinks.