Medieval D-Day ??? Scene from "Robin Hood" trailer

[Radish]

Also remember that when the Normans invaded England, the population wasn't much more than one million in total, so mass numbers wouldn't have happened. And the English, under harold, had just marched 300 miles or so from Yorkshire where they'd defeated and slaughtered the Norse. The English still fought the old way...shield walls and all that and were very good at it.
Even at Agincourt, the archers had a devastating effect, but much of the slaughter of the French came from the English Knights and Men-At-Arms fighting on foot, and, of course, at French stupidity in fighting us when we'd chosen the ground.

[Martin H]

Terry. The french lost more knights from drowning belive it or not. If Knocked off their horse they usualy landed face down in to the rather deep and very wet mud. In a suit of armour, its very hard, if not imposible to lift your self up. and if the visor is imbedded in mud..................Not a pleasant way to go by any means.

And Agincourt is also the first battle with a recorded fatality from a gunshot wound. An English man at arms from a primitive French hand gun.

Medevil warfare is an interest of mine...comes from being a longbow man as a hobby.

[Radish]

Many French were just crushed too. Those at the back were pushing forward at Agincourt, and once the first few hundred French had been slaughtered, these formed a barrier that the English used to just chop at anything coming over. Also, there were so many French they couldn't really move to fight so were unable to defend themselves. The English just stood there and killed them. Our greatest enemy was exhaustion.

[thedarkmaster]

well as i own and fight in a suit of full plate mail armour i think i can refute the whole once your down your not getting up thing.......its rot. Look at it this way, why would you, the elite of Europe, have a defensive and offensive ( MY armour has cutting edges on the raised fluting ) armour system that some lowly peasant with a stick and an eating knife could beat ? All he would have to do is knock you over in your cumbersome armour and then when your stuck on the floor unable to rise in this thing stick his dagger somewhere and you will bleed to death......not happening is it ?

Agincourt was a complete and utter fu** up by the French, first they attacked on ground of the English's choice, next though the arrow storm was mostly ineffective it did produce a shie effect which increased the cogestion in the French ranks, third. The French battle plan seems to have been as simple as killing king Henry and all his knights which as they stood in the centre of the English line made French congestion even worse, this is what defeated the French.......if you cannot move your arms you cannot stop an English knight hitting you with a Pole axe never mind the more numerous and lowly peasants hitting you with a bill hook and all this before you can think about making him die for his King.

The arrow storm at Agincourt was a failure it did not stop the french, by this point in the 15th cent plate armour is more or less arrow proof, I'm not saying no one gets killed but it's an acceptable risk, and thats what war is all about.

[Martin H]

by this point in the 15th cent plate armour is more or less arrow proof, I'm not saying no one gets killed but it's an acceptable risk, and thats what war is all about.

Now there a challenge.  Fancy putting it to the test with a real needle bodkin? 

[thedarkmaster]

Now there a challenge.  Fancy putting it to the test with a real needle bodkin?

many of the medieval re-enactment groups do it mate, plate will bounce many arrows even at 25 yds due to the glancing surfaces built into them or the fluting which channels arrow heads away and if they do penatrate it's only about 1/2 inch, which i know sounds bad but under a suit of plate is an arming doublet thicker than that, However an arrow will split a mail suit at cosiderable range but it is a well known fact that mail is of very little defence against "stabbing" style attacks.

To be fair this only applies to top quality plate, munitions style armour without the glancing surfaces and fluting is much more vunerable to arrow fire especially longer range plunging fire, due to the lower level shoulder and head protection.

finally the one thing to remember over all this is that very few people these days are able to draw a 120lb plus war bow and then fire the minimum 12 shots a min required to be able to go to France, I know I can't do it !!

if you want to see it mate let me know and i will get you some dates where the longbow groups are putting on display,

[Martin H]

I dont need to see it, ive done it .
All be it with a 60lb flatbow. Half inch steel will defeat a modern bow with ease. I have seen quater inch plate defeated by an 80lb bow at 40 yards thou. Ive also seen high speed film of an arrow impact, I expected it to punch through. It doesnt. It hammers its way through, they recon that even if it doesnt get through, the shock wave from the hammer effect can break bones. As for the 12 shots a min, that ones beaten me so far, ive got upto 8 with my own 60pounder.

[thedarkmaster]

 


I've seen that too, the thing with most of these tests is that they dont tend to use real weapons and armour, the only one i can think of is a Swiss series using Crossbow quarrels not arrows and i believe that the heads beat the armour but do not punch all the way through like it does with chainmail. not imediatly killing wounds but certainly crippling.

talking Longbows i have a 100 lb draw one and it absolutly knac**rs me out to fire more than about 8 shots but then again i have not practiced every Sunday since childhood     

[Radish]

See....told you the French made a mess of things. Wet muddy ground, crammed together versus English using pole axes=slaughter. Bostin'

[Martin H]

but then again i have not practiced every Sunday since childhood     

That makes two of us then    

[Geoff]

Uummm, that's still a legal requirement I think IIRC. LOL

[Martin H]

Uummm, that's still a legal requirement I think IIRC. LOL

Nah it was repealed about 6 years ago, along with a shed load of other now irreleant laws from the distant past.

[nev]

Damn you Blair! *waves angry fist*

[Nick]

And what was the punishment for not following that law....?

I'm going to see this Robin Hood when it comes out, it has got to be worth a laugh at least. If it's anything like Gladiator it will rock!

[Aircav]

I can see it now, by the early morns light through the fog, a fleet of wooden oar powered LCT's approach the golden shores of England carrying a deadly invasion cargo of Norman soldiers and horse drawn carts, the LCT crew gets the order to row faster as they get closer to the shingle beach on which the craft will land, the surf lifts the boats onto the beech and the wooden ramps at the front are dropped down with a splash, the foreign foe now empties out and do their evil deed................