Bristol 188 [edit] now including FT.155-like submissions as well

[Daryl J.]

The Bristol 188 enters production and comes to the Americas.


Martin builds it alongside the Canberra and AVRO builds it for our hockey playing, more polite neighbors.  

Discuss.  



Daryl J., trying to picture one based at Minot AFB, in about 1972

[Martin H]

What would you use it for?
All they worked out from it was never build another stainless steel aircraft. And it would need refueling before it was out of sight of its home base.

[Cobra]

How about building the 188 as a High Altitude Interceptor? i looked it up & it looks like it would be Suited to Interceptor Duty or you could Build it as an ASAT Interceptor. how does that Sound? Dan

[alertken]

DJ: MH is right. RAE's 1953 perception of sustained supersonics was stainless steel + (the Meteor-like) layout. UK's funded Requirement was for recce, upgraded in 1954 to a platform for a stand-off bomb. The Bristol/AWA/DH PS.50 machine was proof-of-concept, intended primarily to determine the capability of UK basic metals industry (all those Daniel Doncasters, HDAs, those people) to build such a thing. Finding, rapidly, that they either could not, or for an experimental batch of 5, would not, interest lapsed and the Supersonic Transport Committee de-cogged to M2.2/alloy. If, as should have happened, T.188 had been chopped in April,1957 (with Avro 730 recce/bomber), this scheme would have faded into an obscure entry in the Bristol Putnam. Any military application would have been chopped after May,1960, when high-altitude penetration became quaint.

[Hobbes]

With less thirsty engines and aluminium construction it might have been developed into a competitor to the Starfighter.

[The Rat]

The objections are valid, but let's take another tack, something I've often thought about proposing as a Group Build. It's crisis time in the weird and wonderful 1950s and '60s, with a sudden storm of war forming in Europe. Britain is stuck without enough aircraft to handle this situation, so experimental types are hastily turned into combat-ready aircraft in anticipation of service. We then see things like the Bristol 188 armed for the interceptor role, the Short Sperrin (having been retained as a test bed instead of being scrapped in 1958) fitted for bombing, and the Rolls Royce Thrust Measuring Rig (the Flying Bedstead) being used to hover near enemy lines and send them into fits of laughter.

Thoughts?

[Mossie]

I guess you could go a step further too & say that the Bristol 188 was the pre-prototype for the Avro 730, what if that that entered service?  That's probably something for another thread though.

[PR19_Kit]

What would you use it for?

It'd make a great backdrop for a bunch of nutters at a model show..........

[Daryl J.]

LoL!   I did not know it was made of stainless!      Very cool shaped machine though.   

How about this one then...same parameters: 








...and other FT.155 submissions of course.   

[upnorth]

Actually, simply to look at the 188, forgetting for the moment that it was made from a totally unsuitable metal and had those thirsty engines; I actually see a western counterpart to the Yakovlev Yak-28 family in it.

The layout is roughly the same as the Yak-28 line and I imagine, once it was rebuilt with a metal more appropriate to flight and thus could have more appropriate engines that weren't so thirsty just to get it off the ground; you might actually have something with it.

You could have it as an interceptor until the Lightning came into service in large enough numbers and then keep it around in modified forms for other duties. Just like the Yak, when it's interceptor days were done, it was kept on in strike, recce, ECM and probably a couple of other roles for several years.

Of course, in that situation, it's basically taking the place of the Canberra in RAF inventory.

[GTX]

Something simpler - maybe the Bristol 188 could have been used for trials with missiles (well that's the excuse for now):



Regards,

Greg

[dy031101]

Given my infatuation of mixed-powered aircraft...... isn't either Boulton Paul P.128 or its successor design to have provision for a rocket booster in the fuselage tail?

IIRC, a fighter nose was designed as a subsitute for the research-purpose nose?

[rickshaw]

Given the thirstiness of the Gyron powerplants, what would be available as a suitable substitute which was more economical?

[Hobbes]

Well, the original plan was to fit the Avon RA 24 R that was being developed for the Avro 730. When that was cancelled, the Gyron was chosen.

Those had 10,000 lb of static thrust, 14klb with reheat.

I wonder what it would have done with a set of Avons from the EE Lightning (although those weren't exactly frugal either).

[The Wooksta!]

The RB106 Thames was supposed to be interchangable with the Avon.

The Gyron was only chosen as the engines had been built for the SR177.  The airframes were cancelled and the Ministry of Supply ordered that the 188 use them.