East Austrian air force markings

[upnorth]

Hello all:

I'm working on a storyline right now where the Warsaw Pact includes a divided Austria rather than a divided Germany.

I have Airfix's new MiG-15 in the stash and have decided to use it to represent an East Austrian machine.

The idea I have for national markings is along the same lines as what was seen for Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria in the Socialist era; a red star background with the particular nation's colours imposed over the centre in a small roundel.

I planned to use the background stars of the Hungarian markings that came with the kit (the green centres are separate) and stick some red centres from spare RAF roundels on them in place of the green Hungarian centres.

So, essentially I'm visualising a red star with a white/red roundel in the centre.

Does that sound like a reasonable national marking? Any other ideas?

[pyro-manic]

A red star with the white triangle in the middle, or maybe a white star in a red circle instead of the triangle?

[Cliffy B]

What about a Red star with a White Roo or is the Roo being used by the Western Aussies?

[GTX]

What about a Red star with a White Roo or is the Roo being used by the Western Aussies?

Err Austria not Australia...

Regards,

Greg

[Cliffy B]

What about a Red star with a White Roo or is the Roo being used by the Western Aussies?

Err Austria not Australia...

Regards,

Greg

I um.... ummm..... 

Guess I should read a little more closely then huh?  Ehhhh...I'll get my coat...

[upnorth]

A red star with the white triangle in the middle, or maybe a white star in a red circle instead of the triangle?

Interesting, the white star in the red circle idea. I'll have to see if I have the spare decals to make it work.

I think I would keep the triangle for West Austria markings. Just as West Germany retained the iron cross markings.

Cliffy B, no worries

[GTX]

I um.... ummm.....  

Guess I should read a little more closely then huh?  Ehhhh...I'll get my coat...

I wouldn't be too worried - you wouldn't believe how many times I've seen that mix up in international trade shows and the like.

Regards,

Greg

[NARSES2]

A red star with the white triangle in the middle, or maybe a white star in a red circle instead of the triangle?

Interesting, the white star in the red circle idea. I'll have to see if I have the spare decals to make it work.

I think I would keep the triangle for West Austria markings. Just as West Germany retained the iron cross markings.

Cliffy B, no worries

Would the white star/red circle get a little confusing because of US national markings ?

I think the origional idea of replacing the green Hungarian centre with a red one is more plausable personally. Just my tuppence worth.

I'm doing a Royal Austrian AF Siskin at the moment. Going to use the WWI tail markings for it's national markings plus red/white wing bands

[jcf]

So, then you'd have Öst-Österreich and West-Österreich? 

To follow the divided Germany model (BD and DDR), how about the ODR? Österreich Demokratische Republik.

How would you divide Austria and would Vienna be a divided city like Berlin?



Perhaps the ODR would be the provinces of Nieder-österreich and Burgenland?
Which is fairly close to the actual post-war division:

[upnorth]

Jon:

I came up with the idea of a divided Austria at the time I came up with my Bucharest Alliance story to support my bubble top Czech Hawker Hurricane that you can see and read about on the main site page.

The origin of the split was when the Bucharest Alliance nations and their Soviet "assistance regiments"  fought it out with the Germans in Austria to keep the Germans out of the Balkans.

The "Linz Line" was the agreed upon division point at the time the Germans conceded defeat in any attempt to take the Balkans. The line started roughly where the Czech, Austrian and German borders met and cut through Ober-osterreich, Styria and Carinthia and then extended through the border region of Italy and Slovenia to terminate just east of Trieste.

The Linz Line was essentially the path of the Soviet/Bucharest Alliance land blockade which successfully cut Germany off from not only any land access to the Balkans, but also any point in Austria east of the line. The Soviet/Bucharest Alliance presence in the region was met with mixed reactions by Austrians; some saw them as a liberating force, other saw them as invaders.....other views also existed. The only clear point was that Moscow had no intention at all of relinquishing it's holdings in Austria.

In the wake of the war, Vienna and Graz lay each more than half in ruins; Linz itself fared only a bit better. At the bargaining tables that would see the post war divisions of Europe drawn up, the Soviets made no secret that they would destroy outright the remaining sections of Vienna and Graz before relinquishing any part of Austria east of the Linz line.

Not wishing to provoke the Soviets so soon after the end of the war, it was reluctantly agreed to split Austria into a Democratic west and Socialist East. Vienna was retained as the capital for the east while Salzburg was named capital of the west.

A notable industrial accquisition the Soviets made through the establishment of the Linz Line was the automotive and weapons manufacturer, Steyr. Steyr became a major producer of vehicles, weapons and even aircraft to the Warsaw Pact nations and their allies.

Unlike the divided Germany of real time, the divided Austria did not feature any divided cities. With all of the former Bucharest Alliance nations and the Balkans firmly under Moscow's grip, Vienna was seen as hopelessly too far east and too tightly surrounded to be helped in the same way Berlin was.

However, like the real world West Germany; West Austria did see foreign military presence under the auspices of NATO and was a full member of the organization itself. The West Austrian military was quickly established and furnished with Dehavilland Vampires and Gloster Meteors in the air element.

The Vampires and Meteors quickly gave way to Hawker Hunters and Avro Canada CF-100 interceptors which, in turn, gave way to a mixed fleet of Dassault Mirage types, both deltas and the more conventional F.1.

At the time of reunifictaion in 1990, the military inventories of both East and West Austria were considered largely geriatric, save for West Austria's modest Mirage 2000 fleet of which deliveries had only just begun, and the East's small (but much feared) fleet of Sukhoi Su-27 Flankers. The newly reformed nation was in desparate need of new gear.....

Of course, none of that has anything to do with my East Austrian air force  MiG-15 (er....Steyr St-150  )  but it gives you a bit of an insight to where I'm going with the divided Austria and how it came to be.

[martinbayer]

How about a square version of the Austrian flag (two horizontal red stripes on top and bottom with a white stripe in the middle) and a red star in the center of the white stripe?

Martin

[upnorth]

How about a square version of the Austrian flag (two horizontal red stripes on top and bottom with a white stripe in the middle) and a red star in the center of the white stripe?

Martin

Thanks for the idea Martin. I hadn't actually thought about the flag too much, but your idea sounds quite probable for an Eastern state flag if Austria had been divided.

[Mossie]

That would be good, but I can think of an alternative version.  The Austrian State Flag includes the Austrian coat of arms.  The bird in coat of arms has in it's talons a hammer & sickle.  Seems very appropriate to a Communist Austria & would be similar to Albania?

Maybe make the coat of arms larger & replace the crown with a red star?  I've done a few examples to see what you like.  The coat of arms used is an earlier one from 1918-134, the current one has broken chains on it's it talons to show it is 'free', which it wouldn't quite be as a Communist country.

East Austrian Flag with dimensions of coat of arms same as state flag:


East Austrian Flag with dimensions of coat of arms larger than state flag:


East Austrian Flag with Soviet Star:

[upnorth]

Mossie, those flags are great!

The second and third are particularly believable.