Sikorsky S-61 Sea King

[jcf]

A number of S-61 are still operated in civil roles, fire-fighting,
logging, passenger transport etc.

Operators list on helis.com:
http://www.helis.com/database/model/53/org

[lenny100]

the royal navy has up to 16 aew but they are to be replaced in 2019s by the merlin crows nest, but yet again the carriers we are building will have a gap of over 3 years before they come into regular service!

[PR19_Kit]

Only flat on the port side and on the first, N300Y, only in the area of the fuselage extension.

Bumping this as I've only just found the evidence that triggered my memories.

I've flown in an S-61L out to an oil rig in the North Sea and that was flat all the way to the sternpost, as that's where the baggage lockers were. I've found pics of three operators, at least, who flew the same config.

[PR19_Kit]

Fleet Air Arm, not the RAF.

Two VERY different organisations, with the same relationship that the USN has with the USAF, a sort of undeclared war. 

[Thorvic]

the royal navy has up to 16 aew but they are to be replaced in 2019s by the merlin crows nest, but yet again the carriers we are building will have a gap of over 3 years before they come into regular service!

Well replaced in role by the Merlin HM2A fitted with the Bolt On Crowsnest module and sensor. No new cabs as yet, but there may be method to the madness in that they will probably try a test fit of Crowsnest in a V-22 Osprey nominally for the USMC but its know the V-22 is being eyed up for the next decade for RN use aboard the QEC's as COD, Tanker, Special Ops and possibly AEW.

HMS Queen Elizabeth starts sea trials in spring and will sail for Portsmouth for 2-3 yrs of first of class trials which will include F-35B qualification next year in the USA. MHS Prince of Wales will be launched this summer and start her fitting out period at Rosyth ready to sail south 2019/20. HMS Queen Elizabeth will probably get a rectification refit towards the end of her Sea Trials period which will allow for the Air Operations crew to switch ships to put Prince of Wales through her flight qualifications trials. The 2023 date is when the Carrier Strike capability is nominally ready with both Carriers ready for service, 24 F-35B are available for sea duty and the Crowsnest fully delivered. The 2020 date often mentioned by the Govt, is technically true in that we will have a carrier in service a nominal squadron of F-35Bs in the UK and the first few Cowsnest units coming into service so if forced we could deploy on Active duty from that point onwards, just not at optimum capability

So we may probably see an AEW Sea King on HMS Queen Elizabeth in the next couple of years as they will want to test the ship and the AEW system together, they may even deploy with the Carrier to the USA next year.

[NARSES2]

I've merged the two threads

Chris

[jcf]

Only flat on the port side and on the first, N300Y, only in the area of the fuselage extension.

Bumping this as I've only just found the evidence that triggered my memories.

I've flown in an S-61L out to an oil rig in the North Sea and that was flat all the way to the sternpost, as that's where the baggage lockers were. I've found pics of three operators, at least, who flew the same config.

Right, as I said flat bottom on port-side only.
EX-VIH C-FPZR in her current form in Brazil, from stbd., note
deadrise from centerline to chine.

[PR19_Kit]

Right, and I said 'almost flat bottom' in my original comment.......

I boarded the aircraft from the port side and had to ID my baggage in the hold before boarding, it was in the 2nd door from the stern post, so I knew the 'flat' bit went a long way back but I never could find a pic to show that at the time.

[JayBee]

Then there is the Helipro Shortsky.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/helipro-shortsky-enters-service-17432/

[jcf]

Then there is the Helipro Shortsky.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/helipro-shortsky-enters-service-17432/

With which I am intimately acquainted, and I still have my jacket. 

The first VIH S-61N was done before we had the STC that allowed cutting the main wiring looms at the cockpit bulkhead
and installing a group of cannon plugs of various sizes to simplify the shortening. On the first VIH machine we (mostly I)
disconnected everything from the tail forward, rolled it all up as we went and hung the coils off the aft side of bulkhead.
At the same time we removed the extraneous wire for equipment/systems that had been removed previously, the machine
had been logging for a while.
Yech, what a manky collection of wiring: dirt, hydraulic fluid (lots of it), transmission oil (lots of it,
under the transmission area an S-61 looks like the driveway under a Harley), sawdust, wood-chips, old candy wrappers,
cigarette butts etc., etc. Wire numbers had disappeared in large areas, along with equipment tags and other indicators
of what belonged where, we spent quite a bit of time re-identifying stuff.

But overall it was fun. 

We also did a full rewire on a bare airframe, for which Hayes Helicopter traded an ex-Bristow off-shore transport.
Watching the engineers rip the full interior out, leather seats etc., was sad. Of course I had my part in the destruction
removing the all-weather nav gear and other now unnecessary systems. The wiring looms in the main E & E bay (it's
under the floor of the cockpit) were fully shielded and getting them out was a bit of a chore as the shielding made them
a bit like an octopus in rigor mortis.

[zenrat]

...under the transmission area an S-61 looks like the driveway under a Harley...

As a Triumph owner I can relate to that.

[AS.12]

So, what was the advantage of slogging through the Shortsky conversion over buying ex-mil 'short' airframes?  Cheaper to apply for an STC to a certificated type than to try to certify from military service*? 

It mirrored a conversion of a decade earlier, the Agusta Silver being another chopped S-61N of the same magnitude though newly-built.  Allegedly 4ft 2 in was removed but that seems remarkably close to the 4ft 3 in forward plug originally added to create the S-61L/N, so I think it's actually the same plug.  The missing inch was probably lost in the conversion to and from metric between publications.  The Silver also fitted Coulson tail-rotor blades directly from the factory.

At one point Agusta floated the idea of fitting CT7 engines which would have rather embarrassed the S-70 but which required some re-engineering to drive the S-61's gearbox and remained a proposal only.

And much later, in the 2000s, Carson started refurbishing ex-mil S-61A examples as the S-61T for the State Department.  Many more available for use than the plain-civilian models and saves all that hacking around with saws and cables.


~~

* Though curiously the 61A and 61R are both certificated in the Restricted category anyhow:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/32667AA51178D58F86257AEE0076F319?OpenDocument
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/403DF8940850020186257C67006481CF?OpenDocument

I do like the FAA's definition of 'the same':

Model S-61R is the same as the Model S-61L except for the fuselage modified for a complete hull, a rear-loading ramp, airfoil shaped sponsons, retractable landing gear and a modified tail rotor pylon.)

[jcf]

Simple, the ex-US military machines can't be used for civil operations in Canada.
Transport Canada's biggest problem is their lack of full documentation and service history.
The airliner Ls and Ns I worked on had full manuals and paperwork going back to
the factory, showing original delivery specs, incorporation of all required ADs etc. etc.
Stacks of paper, piles of books.
The ex-US As and the one R I rattled about on a bit had incomplete manuals, only
listed major ADs required by the FAA before being allowed to operate under their
Restricted certificates and TBO info for the engines and rotor-heads.

It was pretty much the same with the civil Bell 204/205, 212, 214s versus the ex-mil
UH-1s, a complete mechanical and service history versus a list of units a machine had
been assigned to, yes there were 'sign-offs' from the military units that certain things
had been done, but no way to prove it.

Thus the sense of shortening machines that had always been in civil use (even when
leased out to various militaries, one bare hulk we had had been sunk in the Amazon
while being operatedfor a South American military) for further civil use in the Canadian
heli-log market. Taking out the plug increased the slung load by ~1,000lbs, actual
carrying ability varied by altitude of course.

Somewhere in my stuff I have some Agusta art for their proposal for their shortened,
luxury transport.

HeliJet in B.C. (lots if interrelations between the helo businesses in the very incestuous
BC helo industry), used to operate an all-weather airliner Shortsky on regular service,
and I also heard they had tried teaming with others to sell them to the Asian and Gulf
market, without success.

[jcf]

BTW the basic forward fuselage of an L/N and an R are the same, both have the lengthened
forward fuselage. You can see the extended area forward of the engine intakes. The only big difference
is the port-side flat belly on the L.

Cross-kitting an HH-3 (S-61R) Jolly Green Giant and a SH-3/Westland Sea King(S-61A/B/etc.)
would be a way to get the basics for an N model.

You could use the leftovers to create a 'what-if' short-nose HH-3. 

[McColm]

I've got an idea for an EH-3F (S-61R) using parts from a Revell 1/72 Sea King ASaC.7/AEW.2.
The inflatable radome is located on the left-hand side of the forward fuselage as it wouldn't fit on the door (right-hand side).