Amroured rail vehicles

[puddingwrestler]

Who here likes armored rail vehicles? Armoured trains and railcars, the old railmounted super cannons etc...
Because I just found this rather groovy looking thing, it's in the Namibian railway musseum apprently, but apart from a pic, there are not many details.


LINKY!

[rickshaw]

Looks like a Buffel hull on rail bogeys.

[ChernayaAkula]

AWESOME! Why didn't someone think of this earlier?

Maybe one could even fit a road-rail adapter to an armoured car, so it could patrol both railways and roads.

Something like this:

[NARSES2]

Lots of countries developed "conversion kits" to enable armoured cars to operate on railway tracks etc but the Japanese designed one (at least) specifically with the intent of being used in a dual role.

Note : There is some discussion as to wether this was actually called a "Sumida" a/c or if this was purely the name of the truck it was based on

http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/3-Japan/09-ArmoredCars/Type93-Sumida/Type93-Sumida.htm

[Weaver]

Begs the question of what scale to model it in, doesn't it?

1. Make it with a 1/87th body and wheel gauge, thereby making it OO-gauge (continental standard). Where do you get your military bits from though: Roco Minitanks are getting collectable nowadays.

2. Make it with a 1/76th body and wheel gauge thereby making it HO-Gauge: easy, but won't fit on most UK model railways track.

3. Make it with a 1/76th body and 1/87th wheel gauge: fits HO/OO train track (UK standard) but might look odd.

[DaFROG]

Begs the question of what scale to model it in, doesn't it?

1. Make it with a 1/87th body and wheel gauge, thereby making it OO-gauge (continental standard). Where do you get your military bits from though: Roco Minitanks are getting collectable nowadays.

2. Make it with a 1/76th body and wheel gauge thereby making it HO-Gauge: easy, but won't fit on most UK model railways track.

3. Make it with a 1/76th body and 1/87th wheel gauge: fits HO/OO train track (UK standard) but might look odd.

to complicate things PW's contraption is on metre(ish) gauge track

dunno hat gauge the japanese thing would be

[NARSES2]

Well Japanese railways (Not the HS lines) currently use a gauge of 1.067m (3' 6"). However the "Sumida" was probably built for use in China where they use "Standard Gauge" of 1.435m (4' 8 1/2"). The Namibian one is probably 1.067m (3' 3 3/8") which is used im much of Southern Africa.

Probably explains why not to many countries produced dedicated a/cars to be used on rails and improvised 

I think the conversion sets that allowed a/c's to be used on rails came with spacers to enable them to operate on whatever the local gauge was within reason.

[Joe C-P]

If I ever get back to the hobby room, I'm going to finish up my present tiny tanks and then but some 1/72 and 1/76 armoured trains; my Patchwork World Singapore is defended on the land side by a ring of rail lines carrying a variety of armoured vehicles riding those rails.

[Fulcrum]

Well Japanese railways (Not the HS lines) currently use a gauge of 1.067m (3' 6"). However the "Sumida" was probably built for use in China where they use "Standard Gauge" of 1.435m (4' 8 1/2"). The Namibian one is probably 1.067m (3' 3 3/8") which is used im much of Southern Africa.

Probably explains why not to many countries produced dedicated a/cars to be used on rails and improvised 

I think the conversion sets that allowed a/c's to be used on rails came with spacers to enable them to operate on whatever the local gauge was within reason.

Also the problem with this concept is that an insurgent could tamper the rail lines & cause the armoured rail vehicle to derail.

[TomZ]

The Germans had some experiments with tanks on rail:http://anonymous-generaltopics.blogspot.com/2010/08/pzkpfw-iii-ausf-n-als-schienen.html

They also had some armoured cars that could be converted to rail use like this one: http://www.warwheels.net/Panhard178index.html

And don't forget the Russian and German armoured trains: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tozu/Atrains/bp44/bp44.htm

http://www.google.nl/images?q=armoured+trains&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:nl:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=NUhqTP7WKaaIOKuEpaoB&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQsAQwAA&biw=1680&bih=810

TomZ

[raafif]

There are 2 of the Ansaldo armoured railcars in a museum at Trieste, Italy, both a bit damaged.

Been seeking info & pics on post-1950 Russian armoured trains but apart from a pic of a missile launch wagon on Wiki, nada so far.

[DaFROG]

There are 2 of the Ansaldo armoured railcars in a museum at Trieste, Italy, both a bit damaged.

Been seeking info & pics on post-1950 Russian armoured trains but apart from a pic of a missile launch wagon on Wiki, nada so far.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/land-forces/53560-russian-armoured-trains-back.html

This was in the google image search results posted above, dunno if it's what you are after

http://otvaga2004.narod.ru/publ_w5/004_train.htm

further pic-age linked from first liked page

[ChernayaAkula]

^ Whoa! Awesome stuff!
Nicely display of Russian making-do.

[raafif]

thanks Frog,
              tried that google.nl url but the page "jiggled" around a lot on my screen.

The "octvaga2004" link is nice with some good info on Chechnya.
Also try this page on that site -- http://www.otvaga2004.narod.ru/publ_w1/2006-10-27.htm

I have seen a pic of a very tall armour-wagon mounting a T-10 turret at each end but this seems to have been a rail-mounted training device not an operational weapon (would most likely tip over on fireing sideways) -- it seems dedicated armoured railcars & wagons with Tank turrets have been ignored in favour of flats with tanks & A/cars for free-ranging pursuit of partisans -- a lesson learned by the Germans in WW2 -- tho this means the train must wait for their return before continuing the journey or abandon them to their fate.  Presumably the other trains would also accompany un-armed troop or supply trains on occasion as the "Kozma Minin" did.

Most of these Russian trains seem to be quite old wagons, some seem to use ex-WW2 superstructure parts.  Most of the photos are taken in a "museum" or storage/scrap yard -- the wagons are quite knackered.

It would seem that, between 1950 & the Yugoslav wars, these Russian trains were mostly on the Chinese border (expected invasion) with only the Nuke Missile-trains being on the western borders of the CCCP (probably no further west than Poland as they are not mentioned by Brixmis or other Allied "spy" missions in East Germany).

Bosnia's "Krajina Ekspress" was a good improvisation but the comparable Croatian armoured train seems to have been much more professional in design.
http://oklop2.tripod.com/voz/krajina_ekspres.HTM

As Switzerland is very "train-minded" & have Train Fire-engines for forest fire-fighting, would they have had an armoured train in their inventory   Similarly, what about Norway & Sweden ?

[Weaver]

Italeri kit of a rail convertible armoured car:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Italeri-Autoblinda-AB-40-Ferroviaria-6456-/180536067992?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN