Martin Baker Fighters

[GTX]

For your enjoyment:





Larger Resolution available too - just PM me.

Regards,

Greg

[PR19_Kit]

Now where have I seen those before, about 10 mins ago in fact? 

This month's Aeroplane Magazine, December 2010, has around 20 pages on the various M-B aircraft, fascinating stuff.

They don't mention the MB8 though, perhaps it was just TOO secret....

[JayBee]

That does beg the question Kit. Are there any MB8s preserved in any museums?

Jim

[PR19_Kit]

That does beg the question Kit. Are there any MB8s preserved in any museums?

Of course, but only one.

That's the one I modelled, which is actually the 2nd prototype, VH978, but it's painted up as the last production MB8, VR173, and it's on show at the Newark Air Museum. It's all in the back story....... 

[kitnut617]

What is interesting about the early MB.2 is that Martin and Baker thought that by having a slab-sided fuselage, it would negate having to have a fin.  In the end, even though the MB.5 had a slab-sided fusealge, it also had the biggest fin and rudder of all WW.II single-seat fighters.  (I've done a comparison)

[PR19_Kit]

In the end, even though the MB.5 had a slab-sided fusealge, it also had the biggest fin and rudder of all WW.II single-seat fighters.  (I've done a comparison)

....and it was the best handling of any piston-engined fighter too. Perhaps there's a link there? Compared to the fin/rudder of a Spitfire I you wonder how the Spit stayed flying in a straight line!

[Maverick]

Surely the torque of the Griffon would have an impact on the rudder area when they were designing the MB.5?  The later Spit variants increased rudder chord as a result.

Regards,

Mav

[kitnut617]

I don't think the effect of the more powerful engines was realized Mav,  it was thought the fuselage would act like a fin but it didn't.

[kitnut617]

In the end, even though the MB.5 had a slab-sided fusealge, it also had the biggest fin and rudder of all WW.II single-seat fighters.  (I've done a comparison)

....and it was the best handling of any piston-engined fighter too. Perhaps there's a link there? Compared to the fin/rudder of a Spitfire I you wonder how the Spit stayed flying in a straight line!

Yes considering the size of it.  When I used to look at the drawings of the MB.5 in Aircraft of the Fighting Powers, it sort of gave the impression it was a small compact aircraft.  But that was until I built my model of it, it's as big as a P-47 Thunderbolt ------ 

[Maverick]

Certainly seems an odd choice of design, considering the 'conventional' layout of the rest of the thing.  No vertical tail just looks wrong, but I guess the various flying wings proved you don't need one with some designs.

Regards,

Mav

[Hobbes]

Surely the torque of the Griffon would have an impact on the rudder area when they were designing the MB.5?  The later Spit variants increased rudder chord as a result.

The MB.5 had a contraprop, that would negate the torque effects.

[Maverick]

Very good point Hobbes.  There must have been some longitudnal instability to warrant the rudder size rather than the engine's torque.

Regards,

Mav

[NARSES2]

Yes considering the size of it.  When I used to look at the drawings of the MB.5 in Aircraft of the Fighting Powers, it sort of gave the impression it was a small compact aircraft.  But that was until I built my model of it, it's as big as a P-47 Thunderbolt ------ 

Exactly my thoughts. I was staggered when I built it

[PR19_Kit]

The Aeroplane article says that the MB5 needed an increase in rudder and fin size during it's development (just like the MB8  ) but there were no torque effects, as Hobbes mentions.

What WOULD have had an effect was the contra-prop itself, the increased side area of the prop disc would have required a greater fin/rudder area to compensate that extra area forward of the CoP.

I still can't figure out how the MB5 flew so well with such tiny wings, compared to a Mustang or a Spitfire XXI they're minute!

The MB2 with no fin at all looks totally bizarre, I'm amazed it even managed to fly!

[kitnut617]

I still can't figure out how the MB5 flew so well with such tiny wings, compared to a Mustang or a Spitfire XXI they're minute!

The MB2 with no fin at all looks totally bizarre, I'm amazed it even managed to fly!

That's just the point I was trying to make Kit, they're not tiny.  When I was building my model I found that they were the same size as a Hellcat wing.  That is from just about where the wheel bay on the Hellcat is, to the wingtip.  The wing is nothing like a Mustang wing at all and much bigger.  In this pic you can see I used wheels from a Tempest