Dual-use Missiles

[Fulcrum]

Of course with technology, it's hard to use the missiles on something other than what it is designed for.
But, there are exceptions:-USAF F-102's in Vietnam firing their falcon missiles at Vietcong campfires
      -Egyptian SA-2 Guidelines being firing at Israeli tanks(& yet missing badly)
      -A USN A-4 shooting down a Mig-17 with unguided Zuni rockets

Here's the idea: why combining some uses together for more weapons & more weapons storage capability, albeit possible expensive avionics & systems.

Some suggestions: - a Medium-range, radar guided missile for both long-range air-to-air & SEAD engagements(precedent: some of the first Shrikes were re-manufactured Sparrows)
- a medium range, surface launched missile for both Surface-to-Air & Surface-to-Surface engagements(combining S-300/Patriot with ATACMS, eventually becoming more able to do fire/artillery missions/operations)(precedent: that SA-2 incident mentioned above)
- a infantry carried & launched RPG/MANPADS(precedent: Mogadishu 1993/Black Hawk Down)

Maybe others yet thought of...

[dy031101]

ADATS missile adaptations?

[Fulcrum]

Yes, that too.

(Any missile that is capable to be launched from multiple launch platforms at any(reasonable) target)

[dy031101]

Checking size differences between AIM-4, AIM-26, and ADATS missiles makes me think...... ADATS missiles for F-102 and F-106? 

[Fulcrum]

ADATS missiles for F-102 and F-106? 

That would be awesome!!!

[Hobbes]

For anti-air missiles you need a big engine (to give speed and maneuverability), and a small warload is enough to defeat an aircraft.

For anti-surface missiles, it's the opposite. Less speed is sufficient and you need a large warhead to defeat armored or dispersed targets.

The only component that can easily be adapted for dual use is the guidance system. Given modern technology, that is - I don't think 1960's missiles have the room for a dual-use seeker.

This means that you can, in a pinch, repurpose an anti-air missile for limited ground attack. The other way round is much harder.

[Maverick]

Realistically, I think the only way you'd be able to have a dual-role weapon would be dual role but in the same engagement scenario.  Something like an ARM & PGM might be possible, but I couldn't see an AA dual roled weapon (BVR vs WVR are very differing requirements).

Regards,

Mav

[Weaver]

There are examples of AAMs being used as SAMs, but they suffer a significant range penalty unless the design is changed:

BPDMS Sea Sparrow (SAM range = 8 miles, AAM range = 20 miles. Later Sea Sparrow versions change the missile designby ever-greater degrees)

Chaperral/Sea Chaperral (Sidewinder)

AMRAAM (forget what the SAM version's called, but it IS in service)


Likewise, most MANPADS can be adapted to aircraft/helo launch: Stinger, Mistral, SA-7 and Starstreak AAMs have all been deployed, or at least developed.


Most ATGWs can be used against helicopters with a reasonable chance of success.

Most naval SAMs can be used as anti-surface weapons out to horizon-range, since if they can lock on to a small aircraft, they can damn well lock onto a ship! Their warheads arn't ideal for the task, but it's generally felt that their speed does much to compensate for this, particularly in view of the fact that most modern ships are unarmoured. This isn't hypothetical either: Standard has been tested in the role and has been described as doing as much damage as a 14" shell! I have an excellent account of a NATO exercise in the late 1980's in which a Sea-Harrier-damaged "Moskva" (actually played by a Spruance) was brought back into action by it's crew and performed a "death-or-glory" suicide run against HMS Invinvible, the two ship ending up trading Sea Darts and SA-N-3s at about 15 miles! (Invincible won, but it wasn't pretty.....)






Something that occurred to to me years ago was the dual use of very fast kinetic kill weapons like Starstreak or HVM. Whether intended for use against aircraft or tanks, these all feature hypersonic flight speed and solid warheads, so it would seem possible to merge the two functions. What I imagined was a big central KE penetrator to penetrate a tank, with a ring of smaller flechettes packed around it with a burster charge that deploys them just short of the target. Against a tank, they're essentially wasted, but against an aircraft, they give the "scatter gun" effect neccessary to guarantee a hit.

[deathjester]

IIRC, the AIM-54 Phoenix has a home-on-jam capability.  It would probably be quite simple to make it into a long ranged ARM...?

Also, don't most IR Guided missiles have a boresight launch mode, which just fires it straight ahead if it can't get a lock?

[GTX]

AMRAAM (forget what the SAM version's called, but it IS in service)

There are actually a few:

SL-AMRAAM (Surface Launched (SL) and AMRAAM)...also sometimes goes by name of CLAWS (HUMRAAM):



NASAMS (Norwegian Advanced Surface to Air Missile System):



HAWK-AMRAAM:



Regards,

Greg

[GTX]

There are actually a couple of real world programs underway which do this sort of thing:

DARPA's triple target terminator (T3) program is supposed to develop a missile that can perform the anti-aircraft (i.e. AMRAAM style), anti-radiation (i.e. HARM style) and anti-cruise-missile missions.

There is also the Joint Dual Role Air Dominance Missile (JDRADM) program by the USAF to have missile simply do the anti-aircraft (AMRAAM), anti-radiation (HARM) missions.

Regards,

Greg

[Gondor]

I think the Israeli Derby missile can be used from the surface as well as from the air

Gondor

[Weaver]

Cheers Greg.

IIRC, there are also plans, but no hardware yet, to use MICAs in the SAM role.

[GTX]

Yep - Vertical Launch Mica Short Range Air Defence System, Europe is essentially a surface launched Mica:



There is also a surface launched IRIS-T (funnily enough called IRIS-T SL):



As mentioned by Gondor there is also the Israeil Rafael SpyDer (Surface-to-air Python and Derby) System which uses ground launched versions of the Python 5 and Derby missiles:



Finally, there is the MBDA CAMM (Common Anti-air Modular Missile) systems which is planned to use elements of the ASRAAM system on Land, Ship and Aerial (i.e. as an updated ASRAAM)  applications:




Mind you I would not really class any of these as Dual-Role missiles, but rather SAM derivatives of Air-to-Air missiles.

Regards,

Greg

[Jschmus]

In Vietnam, cruisers equipped with Talos SAMs fired their missiles against North Vietnamese SAM radar sites.  These missiles were fitted with an anti-radar homing system.  In the Falklands, HMS Glamorgan fired her Sea Slug missiles against an Argentine radar site and a runway, but it's unknown whether the weapon was effective or not.