MARTEL (AS-37 and AJ-168), ARMAT, Sea Eagle, and OTOMAT Guided Missile

[kitnut617]

Can anyone provide a photo of the type of transporter that Martel Missiles are carried on from the weapons store to an aircraft.  I've come across photos of a cradle which would be used to load the missile onto the aircraft, at least that's what it looks like with some hand holds on each side, but I don't think this would be used to lug it across an airfield or such.

Robert

[DarrenP]

wonder why the RAF used shrike for the Black Buck ops not Martel ?

[RLBH]

I believe that the Martel would have frozen up in the long cruise south, whereas the Shrike didn't have that particular problem.

[DarrenP]

Have seen some references to RAF/RN pahantoms being equipped with Martel anyone any ideas/pic's?

[Weaver]

I always thought it was a shame that they didn't update the electronics of the TV version to make the datalink pod smaller. With modern electronics, they could have had a pod that fitted on the wingtip instead of costing a pylon, and they could then have fitted two, one forward facing and one aft facing, rather than having to choose which was around to fit the old datalink pods before takeoff.

A Sea Eagle with the radar replaced by the TV seeker and an extended range datalink would make a pretty good land-attack weapon.

[elmayerle]

Perhaps a Sea Eagle with the sensor fit from a SLAM-ER, complete with datalink to allow man-in-the-loop targetting for small, high-value targets or cases where you need precision to avoid messy collateral damages?

[Jschmus]

Have seen some references to RAF/RN pahantoms being equipped with Martel anyone any ideas/pic's?

I haven't found a pic of a Phantom with Martels, but I did find this kit review:

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=3604

Apparently the Tamiya 1/100 F-4K/M includes a pair of Martels.

[kitnut617]

I'm putting Martels on my STOVL Canberra which came from an Airfix kit IIRC, but while doing some pre-planning last night I found there's two types of pylon.  I did a google search to see which attachment point the pylons are supposed to go on (to lazy to dig out the stash boxes to look for the old Buccaneer kit) when I came across a website which showed a photo of a Martel hanging off a Vulcan, the text insinuating that they were used on one or more 'Black Buck' raids.  See here:
http://www.raf.mod.uk/falklands/bb1.html

Anyone know anything about that ?  also could anyone tell me why there's two different types of pylon for the Buccaneer too?

[Weaver]

I'm putting Martels on my STOVL Canberra which came from an Airfix kit IIRC, but while doing some pre-planning last night I found there's two types of pylon.  I did a google search to see which attachment point the pylons are supposed to go on (to lazy to dig out the stash boxes to look for the old Buccaneer kit) when I came across a website which showed a photo of a Martel hanging off a Vulcan, the text insinuating that they were used on one or more 'Black Buck' raids.  See here:
http://www.raf.mod.uk/falklands/bb1.html

Anyone know anything about that ?  also could anyone tell me why there's two different types of pylon for the Buccaneer too?

The original intention was to use Martel, and they got as far as test-fitting rounds to pylons, but the issue of temperature was then raised. The Martel had been designed for short, low-altitude missions and there was a real fear that the missile's systems would freeze up during a prolonged flight at high altitude. For whatever reason, there was more confidence in the Shrike, so that was substituted.

[pyro-manic]

kitnut: The Bucc was given new pylons because the original mounting points meant that the Martel missile wouldn't clear the slipper tanks (if fitted). The later pylons were mounted further outboard than the originals.

This site has all the info: http://www.blackburn-buccaneer.co.uk/0_Contents.html

[kitnut617]

Cheers Alun, Weaver ----

I should have posted this pic, I found the kit they came out of today, the Airfix Buccaneer S.2B but then I found the Frog kit which had different pylons to these ones but with the same missiles. Anyway the instructions say the pylon with the extended rail goes on the outer attachment point.  Anyone know what the round extention is for in the RW?

[Mossie]

wonder why the RAF used shrike for the Black Buck ops not Martel ?

I know it's a bit late, but there was a general feeling within the RAF that Martel was crap.  They never felt that they got the capability they paid for.  I think they preferred Shrike, but even that wasn't quite what they wanted.  The RAF's experience with the two missiles influenced the spec for ALARM.

[kitnut617]

Another question, the Buccaneer kit representations of the Martel have a filled in rear end, should there be a nozzle visible or did they have a frangable cover when on the aircraft.

[kitnut617]

I've got another query, would the Martel airframe be good as a Phoenix type AIM ?  I've read the BSP-Hypersonics, Ramjets & Missiles book and there doesn't seem to be anything along those lines that was in the 'works' so to speak.  I'm just thinking in light of the situation that happened in the Falklands, a long range missile would be just the ticket.

[PR19_Kit]

Robert,

Partially answering your first Martel question, the Sea Eagles, sort of Mega-Martels perhaps, had a cover over their booster when they were in their storage rack, but I never saw one loaded on an aircraft. AFAIK only the Bucc carried them in RAF service so there's no way to go and look at one now sadly.

Did the Martel only have a single rocket motor and no launch booster? There's no sign of a booster on any pics I've seen of it, and I'd suppose either of your suppositions would work, and in any case who's to say you're right or wrong anyway?