MARTEL (AS-37 and AJ-168), ARMAT, Sea Eagle, and OTOMAT Guided Missile

pyro-manic · January 30, 2010, 06:19:30 PM

Didn't some of the maritime strike Tornadoes carry Sea Eagles? I'm sure I've seen a photo somewhere.

Here we go: http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Panavia-Tornado-GR1/1288827/L/

Looks like it has some sort of fairing at the back?

PR19_Kit · January 30, 2010, 09:53:18 PM

Quote from: pyro-manic on January 30, 2010, 06:19:30 PM
Didn't some of the maritime strike Tornadoes carry Sea Eagles? I'm sure I've seen a photo somewhere.

Here we go: http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Panavia-Tornado-GR1/1288827/L/

Looks like it has some sort of fairing at the back?

Ah yes. My brain (what brain...?) was time limited before the Tonkas took over the maritime strike role from the Buccs, sorry.

The fairing may well be the booster, if it has one. It seems that only the helicopter launched Martels had boosters, but I'm darned if I can find a helicopter that carried them, not in Brit service anyway. The Sea Eagle is designed to use a booster as it needs to accelerate to speed so that it's teeny-weeny turbine can get going, but the booster only fires for about 1 sec. maybe a tad more, but it gets the missile up to 4-500 kts in that time!

None of this helps poor Robert with his question though, and there seems to be some sort of rule that says 'All pics of missiles will be taken from 3/4 front and under NO circumstances will the rear view be shown'

Weaver · January 31, 2010, 02:44:25 AM

Confusion cleared (I hope):

Martel: never had a booster because it was only carried by high-speed aircraft, namely RAF Buccs, AdA Jaguars and Mirage IIIEs (and ARMAT on F1s and 2000s?) and Iraqi Mirage F1.EQs (ARMAT: allegedly). It's mentioned in old lists for the Atlantic and Nimrod, but AFAIK they never carried it operationally.

Sea Eagle: usually doesn't have a booster for the same reason. Was/is carried by RAF Buccs and Tornado GR.1Bs, FAA Sea Harrier FA.2s and Indian Jaguar Ms. The version with boosters has two small, jettisonable ones on the sides, and is carried by Indian Navy Sea Kings.

Aircav · January 31, 2010, 07:24:47 AM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on January 30, 2010, 09:53:18 PM

The fairing may well be the booster, if it has one. It seems that only the helicopter launched Martels had boosters, but I'm darned if I can find a helicopter that carried them, not in Brit service anyway. The Sea Eagle is designed to use a booster as it needs to accelerate to speed so that it's teeny-weeny turbine can get going, but the booster only fires for about 1 sec. maybe a tad more, but it gets the missile up to 4-500 kts in that time!

kitnut617 · January 31, 2010, 08:30:45 AM

Thanks guys, all appreciated.

I think I will just go with a frangible cover

PR19_Kit · January 31, 2010, 02:53:41 PM

Veeery interesting!

Indian Navy Sea Kings I guess, yes?

They have totally different boosters to the ones I've seen, which were mounted in-line, right behind the jet exhaust. The ones in the pics have dual strap-on boosters each side. They do look remarkably unsafe hanging there, and that's one HEAVY missile too. Must have been quite a lurch when they fired.

ChernayaAkula · January 31, 2010, 04:01:44 PM

Love those Indian Sea Kings!

Way cool!

DarrenP · February 05, 2010, 02:52:18 AM

Just a Shame that the RAF and FAA binned them and the RN went for surface launched Harpoon and not Sea Eagle.

Weaver · February 05, 2010, 04:37:55 AM

Binning them was very shortsighted. I always wondered if the AJ.168 TV seeker could be updated and applied to the Sea Eagle airframe to give a useful stand-off land attack missile in the mould of SLAM.

Jschmus · February 13, 2010, 03:07:55 PM

Quote from: PR19_Kit on January 31, 2010, 02:53:41 PM
Must have been quite a lurch when they fired.

Imagine the ride if one failed to separate?

rickshaw · February 15, 2010, 03:29:40 AM

Quote from: Jschmus on February 13, 2010, 03:07:55 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on January 31, 2010, 02:53:41 PM
Must have been quite a lurch when they fired.

Imagine the ride if one failed to separate?

More than likely fired by a lanyard - missile drops, rocket booster fires when lanyard pulls the pin. Simple and effective. If the missile doesn't drop, the pin doesn't get pulled. However, you must be vewry, vewry gentle and careful when you land. Oh, and make sure you're pointing away from any buildings/carrier superstructure.

Weaver · February 15, 2010, 04:01:56 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on February 15, 2010, 03:29:40 AM
Quote from: Jschmus on February 13, 2010, 03:07:55 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on January 31, 2010, 02:53:41 PM
Must have been quite a lurch when they fired.

Imagine the ride if one failed to separate?

More than likely fired by a lanyard - missile drops, rocket booster fires when lanyard pulls the pin. Simple and effective. If the missile doesn't drop, the pin doesn't get pulled. However, you must be vewry, vewry gentle and careful when you land. Oh, and make sure you're pointing away from any buildings/carrier superstructure.

Reminds me of a test pilot (John Farley?) going off to fire a Martel from a Harrier (it was tested but not adopted). "Do NOT bring the bloody thing back!" he was told by the armourers, "If you can't get rid of it, don't come back...."

Aircav · July 16, 2010, 05:20:20 AM

Does anyone have any decent drawings of the Sea Eagle missile with dimension's on ?

norseman · July 27, 2010, 05:13:52 PM

There was a design for an extended range land attack version of the Sea Eagle, sort of a British SLAM-ER but even though it was a pretty "easy" mod and working off a proven airframe design penny pinching got in the way. Storm Shadow sort of eventually filled the gap but that is a much bigger heavier beast and it would have been nice to have an extended range land attack missile that could have been carried on a wider variety of platforms. (the JSM version of the NSM missile looks a good fit for this role now but I can't see the RAF adopting it which is a pity).

spike7451 · July 28, 2010, 03:12:42 AM

Quote from: rickshaw on February 15, 2010, 03:29:40 AM
Quote from: Jschmus on February 13, 2010, 03:07:55 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on January 31, 2010, 02:53:41 PM
Must have been quite a lurch when they fired.

Imagine the ride if one failed to separate?

More than likely fired by a lanyard - missile drops, rocket booster fires when lanyard pulls the pin. Simple and effective. If the missile doesn't drop, the pin doesn't get pulled. However, you must be vewry, vewry gentle and careful when you land. Oh, and make sure you're pointing away from any buildings/carrier superstructure.

Not quite..Pilot presses the tit,wigglyamps go firing down to the pylon,locking spigots unlock the missile from the pylon,rocket motor fires & missile flies off the launcher.If the missile does'nt go,then the pilot either jettisons the missile & launcher by firing the main pylons ERU or declares a 'State Two' for a weapon hang up,jet lands & taxies to a shielded revetment for us Armourers to make safe.
The Sea Eagle in that photo is a drill round,which is why it's got orange banding on it.It was used for flight testing.Here's a photo of a Six-One-Spare GR1b over Moray with a pair of Sea Eagles.