Small Combatants - Fast Attack Craft and PT Boats

[GTX]

Hi folks,

A while back Greg (aka cthulhu77) did a stunning S-Boot whiff (see here  and here  for details):



and I'm sure there are others.

One I'm toying with the idea of is a German equivalent to the Soviet Osa class missile boats (pic below):



with the torpedos replaced with anti-shipping missiles.  I'm thinking of going with either Zitteroschen supersonic ASMs, modified Henschel Hs 293s or even a guded Fi-103 missile.  

Your thoughts or other ideas?

Regards,

Greg

[PanzerWulff]

how about rocket launchers like the Nebelwerfer or the ones on the "stuka zu fuss"?
"Panzer"

[bluntie]

Hiya Greg,
               Ages ago i saw an S Boat done as a doodle bug launcher, sadly it is now lost in the wide wide world of web,but i did think at the time of a mobile point defence launcher carrying an Me 163 .
Say the Bismark or Tirpitz was still afloat in '44-'45 to what lengths would Admiral  Canaris and Co Have gone to protect the largest and most valuable assets of the Kriegsmarine?...
How about a 163 with folding wings and RATO bottles, launched off a rail?
Kudos to who ever thought of the V-1 launcher,this is just a variation on someone elses original idea.
                                Steve.

[B777LR]

How about a Schnellboot in disguise? Fit it with a sail, and make it look like a Sloop or Yawl? It would be able to cruise long distances under sail, and make fast sprints using engine. And allied warships wouldnt suspect it once it reached the carribean. Plenty of sailing ships worked there

http://www.hullwebs.co.uk/content/k-victor...ing/rigging.htm

[jcf]

The British HDML (Harbour Defense Motor Launch) class could be, and were, equipped with sails.

http://www.naval-history.net/WW2Ships-HDML1001.htm

So its not much of a stretch, however, it wouldn't look much like a sailing yacht.
A fishing boat is more likely.

BTW a ketch or schooner rig would be the most likely.

Jon

[philp]

What about 4 Rhurstahl X-4?  They could be container mounted.

[jcf]

For a missile fit I wouldn't bother going for guided ant-ship missiles, the systems of the era were primitive
and required almost perfect conditions to achieve a kill. A doubtful set of circumstances for a small vessel pitching in the sea and under fire.

That said, how about a pair of weaponized A5 rockets in containers? Or leftover Enzians converted for surface-to-surface work after Rheinbote got the nod for the SAM role?

Jon

[Hobbes]

How about using it for antisubmarine warfare? With its high speed, it should be able to dodge a torpedo. Add some (or lots of) Hedgehog launchers and a quad 30 mm gun.

[fabe]

A Version with a long-range, high velocity V-3 gun with multiple charges
A North Korean like semi-submersible used for infiltration of Britain and the US
ARA General Perón later Mar del Plata Argentinian version bought in 1939 later modified with Bofors guns and Exocets and used in the Falklands war
I really love the idea of the Nebelwerfers though...

[jcf]

Enzian was intended as a guided missile.  The A5 was purely an aerodynamic test vehicle to prove the shape for the A4 (V2) Containerised Wasserfall (which used the proven aerodynamics of the A4) or Taifun batteries would be a better bet.  Both were blast weapons equipped with proximity fuses.

I'm aware of what they were and at 25' long Wasserfall is too large.
Taifun would be pointless for a maritime vessel.

[Gervasius]

How about a coastal gunboat? Nebelwerfer on stern and a spare Pantherthurm (would that be too heavy?) in front. Soviets did something like that but with two T-34/76 turrets, am I right?

Marko

[B777LR]

Soviets did something like that but with two T-34/76 turrets, am I right?

Il-2 Shturmovik (the PC game) features these, so it must be right

Imagine a streched schellboot (more speed!) with a Tiger 2 porsche turret on front and back, with 2-4 V-1s on a folded ramp and in the load!

[Gervasius]

Il-2 Shturmovik (the PC game) features these, so it must be right

I guess you are right. I googled some, it appears that Soviets modified their gunboats with everything and their father. T-26 turrets, T-34 turrests, ZIS-2 open mounts, 47mm AT guns, you name it - it was all installed on a gunboat. So the German example would be similar, old tank turrets (Pz IV or Panther - I don't think S-boat would handle weight of Pz VIb turret) and flakvierling mount and/or 37mm flak.

(anyone has any nice line drawings of S-boats, by the way?)

Marko

[jcf]

The Russian vessels were designed as river monitors/support craft intended to engage armour and troops on the shore, not fast attack boats. Ditto the turret equipped fire-support landing craft used by the Brits and US.

You would not want to carry a heavy tank turret on a high-speed planing craft, the pounding in a sea way would rip the bows off and the armour would pointless seeing as the rest of the craft is mostly unarmoured.
Increasing the size of the guns and using an enclosed lightly armoured turret is fine, but a tank turret is overkill.

Jon

[jcf]

Good S-boat website:
http://www.prinzeugen.com/SBOATIND.htm

Some drawings:
http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/MK/1999_02/Draw/index.htm

Jon