Small Combatants - Fast Attack Craft and PT Boats

[Amphion]

Number 3 looks very much like a SPICA type-a-thingy, only with the original JAGUAR-hull with the step in the fo'c'sle.

[jcf]

Number 3 looks very much like a SPICA type-a-thingy, only with the original JAGUAR-hull with the step in the fo'c'sle.

Spica was an influence. 

Jon

[jcf]

Another variation on the Asheville theme.

Jon

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Hi Jon,

That PGM Scheme 5 reminds me of the Tacoma Boat CPIC which was similar in appearance but a lot smaller.  The hull profile in the port side view reminds me a lot of the German FAC hull design. 

I am still enamored with the Tjed (Nasty) Class PT Boat as built by Boat Service Ltd. and John Trumpy and Sons. 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Took a few minutes to modify the Asheville Class PG profile this afternoon and came up with something I felt was worth sharing. 

[Joe C-P]

1) Asheville class PGM as built.

2) Tacoma boat PSSM developed from the Asheville, OTO-Melara 76mm turret forward, twin 30mm turret aft.

3) Finally from the development program that resulted in the Asheville class, Fast PGM - Schedule 5 design concept.
Design 5 was slightly shorter than the Ashevilles, 161 feet LOA versus 164.5 feet LOA.

Jon

The fast PGM version would suffer from a loss of cabin space, plus has extra weapons needing extra crew, so you're going to cramp the crew space considerably.
And I know I wouldn't want to be at that forward .50 while the 3" was firing near the bow. 

For a modern version, I could see a 57mm forward and aft a SeaRam, with single .50cal or 25mm port and starboard amidships.

[jcf]

1) Asheville class PGM as built.

2) Tacoma boat PSSM developed from the Asheville, OTO-Melara 76mm turret forward, twin 30mm turret aft.

3) Finally from the development program that resulted in the Asheville class, Fast PGM - Schedule 5 design concept.
Design 5 was slightly shorter than the Ashevilles, 161 feet LOA versus 164.5 feet LOA.

Jon

The fast PGM version would suffer from a loss of cabin space, plus has extra weapons needing extra crew, so you're going to cramp the crew space considerably.
And I know I wouldn't want to be at that forward .50 while the 3" was firing near the bow. 

For a modern version, I could see a 57mm forward and aft a SeaRam, with single .50cal or 25mm port and starboard amidships.

Reasons which are, no doubt, among those that led to the design not being pursued by the USN.
The illustrations are from 'U.S. Small Combatants', Friedman, Naval Institute Press.

Jon

[Sauragnmon]

I'm not sure how feasable it would be, but part of me had the thought of taking an S-Boat, and modifying the forward position with a Kugelblitz turret, or positioning a Flakvierling in the center position instead of the zwilling 2cm.  At the very least, it would look cool, I'm just not sure if there's enough space for the mounting is all.  The flakvierling could likely have space made for it, by raising the platform and expanding it.  Another thought would be the 37mm aft, replaced with a 50mm single, which they were replacing the zwilling 37mm's with in concepts late-war.

Thoughts?

[GTX]

I must admit that I like the idea of modifying Australia's Armidale class Patrol Boats (see here for info) into FACs with missiles such as the NSM:



NSM:



Regards,

Greg

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Uwe Malle built the Revell of Germany 1/144th scale Type 143A Gepard Class gun boat pennant number S 76 Frettchen and has uploaded images of his model to modellversium.de.  He has built a really nice looking model and he certainly put a lot of effort into the small details.

(image source: Uwe Malle and modellversium.de)


Smithery's Italeri ELCO 80' PT Boat WIP over on the ARC Forums
James Brisby has put up images of his 1/35th scale Nasty/Tjeld Class PTF converion and scratch build project based on the hull of the Lindberg 1/32nd scale PT-109 hull.  No easy feat this and he has managed to get the desired look with what he has managed so far.
Links to both of his topics:
HyperScale Discussion Forums - James Brisby's PTF Nasty Class
Aircraft Resource Center Discussion Forums - James Brisby's PTF Nasty Class



Brown Water Enterprises is a web page devoted to the subject of Riverine Warfare and in-shore maritime operations.  Created by Jack Carrico, a retired Army Sergeant it has a lot of interesting images of restoration projects, models, and history.  Apparently Jack is the guy responsible for creating the masters of the 1/35th scale resin riverine warfare models that are now being sold by Masterpiece Models.



Here is a link to a new web page devoted to the 80.0' ELCO PT Boat called PT103.com created by Jeff Davidson which has many useful drawings and illustrations as well as period images of the 80.0' ELCO PT Boats. 



The Historic Naval Ships Association has a number of new features including a reference section devoted to technical manuals and other documents related to naval ships and weapons which may be of some use to anyone building a ship model .

[Fulcrum]

Last night I had an idea of a modernized Osa F.A.C.:
- 1 76mm gun replacing the front 30mm gun
- 4 groups of 4(16) Harpoon Anti-ship missiles replacing the 4 Styx's
- a combined 20mm CIWS with 8 Stinger SAM's as a sort of western "Kastan" system on the aft part of the superstructure.

[PR19_Kit]

I must admit that I like the idea of modifying Australia's Armidale class Patrol Boats (see here for info) into FACs with missiles such as the NSM:

It's the 'Hammersley'! 

As featured in the TV programme 'Sea Patrol', bags of scope for fine detail if you video the prog. Does anyone do a model of of one them perhaps?

[rickshaw]

I wonder who amongst my fellow Aussie posters remembers the ABC-TV series, "Patrol Boat" of the late 1970s (which "Sea Patrol" is a remake of), set on an ATTACK class patrol boat around the Australian coast?  It had some very interesting plots, including the one where the commander disguises his boat as a pleasure yacht to fool the carrier (and her aircraft, one of which is an A4 flown by his elder brother who he detests) HMAS MELBOURNE, so they can get within "missile launch range" (they are simulating being a Soviet style FAC armed with Styx missiles).  This included crew members dressed in bikinis covorting on deck for the benefit of the patrolling carrier aircraft.  Another, well before the issue of Asylum Seekers on refugee boats really came to the fore, featured the MV KRAIT posing as a refugee boat.  KRAIT of course had taken part in the famous raid on Singapore in 1943 and was still being used by the RAN, 30 years later.

[GTX]

I wonder who amongst my fellow Aussie posters remembers the ABC-TV series, "Patrol Boat" of the late 1970s (which "Sea Patrol" is a remake of), set on an ATTACK class patrol boat around the Australian coast?  It had some very interesting plots, including the one where the commander disguises his boat as a pleasure yacht to fool the carrier (and her aircraft, one of which is an A4 flown by his elder brother who he detests) HMAS MELBOURNE, so they can get within "missile launch range" (they are simulating being a Soviet style FAC armed with Styx missiles).  This included crew members dressed in bikinis covorting on deck for the benefit of the patrolling carrier aircraft.  Another, well before the issue of Asylum Seekers on refugee boats really came to the fore, featured the MV KRAIT posing as a refugee boat.  KRAIT of course had taken part in the famous raid on Singapore in 1943 and was still being used by the RAN, 30 years later.

Yep, I remember the show - that episode was one of my favourites too!  Speaking of the Krait, I have actually been abord the real ship .

Regards,

Greg

[Joe C-P]

An article in the recent Proceedings recommended the USN significantly increase its small vessel numbers - LCS/corvettes, coastals, and even riverine - as a way of spreading out the USN, reducing the intimidation factor of a USN port visit (except where intimidation is desired) and increasing command opportunities, and then reducing the number of larger combat vessels as they are not as useful in the current and near-future possible combat environments.

So I propose the USN could (should!) buy and/or lease examples of several different small combatant vessels for evaluation, as well as evaluate modernizing earlier designs.

(His argument against China as a future opponent? One I've previously argued: if China seriously threatened war with the US, the US could threaten to declare its debt to China null and void.)