M3 and M5 Stuart, Honey, M8 HMC, and all the rest

[jorel62]

G.I. Combat..... What a great comic. I remember that issue. The Haunted Tank was knocked out in river (if I remember right) Then the crew rebuilt a tank using an M-24 chassy.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

On the late model M5A1 turret there was a metal fixture attached to the right hand side of the turret that had a sloping front and an open back to it.  The pintle mount for the .30" machine gun was directly behind this feature.  The JED Site describes this as a cover or fairing for the machine gun mount and not ammunition storage.  What was the purpose of this thing?  Was it intended to provide cover for the gunner while manning the weapon outside of the turret?  See attached image for the feature I am referring to (the area within the orange lines which has the white star painted on it). 
Image source: JED Site section on the M5 Stuart

[Just call me Ray]

On the late model M3 and M5 turret there was a piece of metal affixed to the side of the turret on the right hand side that had a sloping front and an open back to it.  The pintle mount for the .30" machine gun was directly behind this feature.  What was the purpose of this thing? 

Ammo storage for said .30 MG, I would guess.

[dy031101]

The JED Site describes this as a cover or fairing for the machine gun mount and not ammunition storage.

Judging from this sentence, if you want me to venture a guess, maybe a storage bin of sorts containing a tripod for dismounted use of the MG?

[jcf]

On the late model M5A1 turret there was a metal fixture attached to the right hand side of the turret that had a sloping front and an open back to it.  The pintle mount for the .30" machine gun was directly behind this feature.  The JED Site describes this as a cover or fairing for the machine gun mount and not ammunition storage.  What was the purpose of this thing?  Was it intended to provide cover for the gunner while manning the weapon outside of the turret?  See attached image for the feature I am referring to (the area within the orange lines which has the white star painted on it). 
Image source: JED Site section on the M5 Stuart

Hunnicutt refers to it as both 'shielded mount' and 'shielded stowage' for the .30 gun.
Another source refers to it as shielding 'the folding pintle mount'.



Looking at the attached photo, whatever it was supposed to do aside, it was evidently useful stowage space. 

Jon

[PanzerWulff]

I'll have my friend Arron to ask his grandfather who was a M3/M5 crewman in europe during WWII he would know
"Panzer"

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Hunnicutt refers to it as both 'shielded mount' and 'shielded stowage' for the .30 gun.
Another source refers to it as shielding 'the folding pintle mount'.

Looking at the attached photo, whatever it was supposed to do aside, it was evidently useful stowage space. 

If the ground mount was not the type that collapsed then perhaps that was the original function of the feature but as you said, it was more often found stuffed with other things. 

Off topic for a moment, the image you attached with the Frankfurt, Limburg, Hochtst traffic circle sign is located just a few kilometers north of Darmstadt where I was stationed for a couple of years on my first assignment to Germany.  I drove around that circle on multiple occasions in a 2.5t truck.  Surprised to see that the only thing that changed is there were more trees when I was there. 

[dy031101]

Could the 76mm gun M1 have been fitted in place of the 75mm M3 onboard the M8A1, creating (somewhat) a subsititute for the M18 Hellcat?

Or is the 75mm gun M3 more compact than it has been given credit for?

[jcf]

Could the 76mm gun M1 have been fitted in place of the 75mm M3 onboard the M8A1, creating (somewhat) a subsititute for the M18 Hellcat?

Or is the 75mm gun M3 more compact than it has been given credit for?

The M8 used the 75mm Howitzer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M116_howitzer

... not the 75mm Gun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/75_mm_Gun_M2/M3/M6

Completely different animals.

[dy031101]

The M8 used the 75mm Howitzer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M116_howitzer

... not the 75mm Gun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/75_mm_Gun_M2/M3/M6

Completely different animals.

This is a howitzer, too?

[Arc3371]

[dy031101]

Yes I'm awared of the existence of this machine...... it's just that the long-barrel gun (which I assumed to be the same gun on the Sherman...... but indeed there is a variant of the 75mm pack howitzer called the M3, and now I don't know which one that M8A1's gun is  ) modification of the M8A1 made me wonder if a turreted TD would still have been possible.

[jcf]

Yes I'm awared of the existence of this machine...... it's just that the long-barrel gun (which I assumed to be the same gun on the Sherman...... but indeed there is a variant of the 75mm pack howitzer called the M3, and now I don't know which one that M8A1's gun is  ) modification of the M8A1 made me wonder if a turreted TD would still have been possible.

All production M8s used versions of the 75mm pack howitzer.

The one vehicle tested with the 75mm gun was a modified M8.

M8A1 was never an official designation.

The re-gunned M8 was not proceeded with as it was felt that sufficient numbers would not be available prior to
the appearance of the T70 (M18).

An earlier proposal was the T50 with 3-inch gun, one of the versions is attached.

Info from Hunnicutt.

Jon

[dy031101]

The one vehicle tested with the 75mm gun was a modified M8.

M8A1 was never an official designation.

The re-gunned M8 was not proceeded with as it was felt that sufficient numbers would not be available prior to
the appearance of the T70 (M18).

An earlier proposal was the T50 with 3-inch gun, one of the versions is attached.

So it was indeed the same M3 gun used by the Sherman that was tested but whose configuration with the modified M8 was not proceeded with?

I am again thinking of probable foreign M3/M5/M8 users for the potential of this one...... 

[jcf]

So it was indeed the same M3 gun used by the Sherman that was tested but whose configuration with the modified M8 was not proceeded with?

I am again thinking of probable foreign M3/M5/M8 users for the potential of this one...... 

Yes, and for 'foreign' i.e. Third World/Southern Hemisphere I think a 57mm/6-pounder version would be
more than adequate to fight each others WWII surplus. Less wear and tear on the machine as well.

The Allies needed something bigger because they were facing later generation German armour, something
that realistically would not be likely in most post-WWII piss-pot wars.

Jon