TBD Devastator

[Daryl J.]

What if:

The TBD was available for public purchase after WW-II for very little money making it available to a low-quality sector of humanity?   The rugged construction, relative efficiency of the aircraft would make it an ideal  light attack aircraft of mercenary pirates operating out of the south coast of Cuba and the north coast of Haiti.   Cruise liners could be intimidated into stopping whilst open sea capable runabouts could then bring a motley crew to board and pillage said vessel.


Perhaps..... :ar:  :ar:  :ar:


    ,
Daryl J.

[jcf]

An enlarged TBD with an R-2600 is basically what Douglas proposed for the VTB contest of 1939, the design featured a tricycle landing gear and was armed with a pair of 20mm cannon. The Douglas design was quickly ruled out and the contract awarded to Grumann(TBF) and Vought(TBU).

Increasing the power would be most easily accomplished by using a differnt dash number of the R-1830 that powered the TBD, perhaps a 1200hp -76(F4F-3) versus the 900hp -64 used on the TBD. The R-2600 is greater in diameter, and heavier, than the R-1830.

Jon

p.s. Darryl, 'leisure cruising' as we know it didn't come into being until the late 1960s, so your pirates would have some pretty slim pickins' post-war. However, there were some passenger liners and lots of fruit transports, which involved a lot of money. Banana pirates could be fun, but short-lived as Dole and United Fruit would soon have the US Navy out in force hunting the pirates.

[dy031101]

When I played "Secret Weapons Over Normandy" on PS2, I'd load heavy cannon pods under the wings and use the plane as a strafer.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

An enlarged TBD with an R-2600 is basically what Douglas proposed for the VTB contest of 1939, the design featured a tricycle landing gear and was armed with a pair of 20mm cannon. The Douglas design was quickly ruled out and the contract awarded to Grumann(TBF) and Vought(TBU).

Increasing the power would be most easily accomplished by using a differnt dash number of the R-1830 that powered the TBD, perhaps a 1200hp -76(F4F-3) versus the 900hp -64 used on the TBD. The R-2600 is greater in diameter, and heavier, than the R-1830.

Guess I was going for something obvious as far as the engine fit, larger/longer cowling = bigger engine=more power.  Of course that is the beauty of visual enhancements.  If the engine that powered the Wildcat was adapted to fit the TBD that would indeed give it some more power and better performance without altering the weight/balance of the aircraft, all of which is good.  Switching to a paddle blade shape Hamilton Standard propeller would also help. 

The next thing to look at is the wings and finding a solution to the ribbing effect that covers the surface, maybe sand that down and replace it with panel lines and rivets. 

The idea of a tricycle landing gear arrangement on the TBD is interesting, the nose gear would probably have been installed in the space previously occupied by the bomb aimer position.  What would have been done about the torpedo?  Would the design have been modified to carry the weapon completely exposed?  I like that idea as it would clear out that cavity in the fuselage that had been made for the torpedo.  Leaving the design with external carriage of all weapons without that aerodynamic fairing for the torpedo.

[jcf]

1939 Douglas VTB proposal 3-view.

Jon

[kitbasher]

The RN buys Devastators instead of the Skua?  Fits either a Mercury or a Hercules engine.  Enters service late 1939, early 1940 (1940 more realistic).  Still a mediocre aircraft!

[GTX]

The RN buys Devastators instead of the Skua?

Given the intended role of the Skua, I can't see this happening.

Regards,

Greg

[Jeffry Fontaine]

The RN buys Devastators instead of the Skua?  Fits either a Mercury or a Hercules engine.  Enters service late 1939, early 1940 (1940 more realistic).  Still a mediocre aircraft!

TBD Devastator was a torpedo bomber with a secondary mission of horizontal bombing and the Skau was a dive bomber.  The Devastator may have had mediocre performance but it was certainly prettier than the Skau!

[kitbasher]

Ah yes,but in Whiffworld the Sea Lords decided in 1938 that dive bombing was for girls and a multirole torpedo/conventional bomb truck with  some wing-mounted MGs too wouldn't be half bad - and had to be better than a Swordfish.  After all, the admirals did try to kill off the Roc before it entered production in the real world (ooh, a turreted Devastator instead of Rocs!!).
And undoubtedly by any measure the TBD was definately a better looker and performer than the Skua (real and Whiff worlds).

[Ian the Kiwi Herder]

Picking-up on the post-war theme:-

Fire bomber..... not much room for retardant as originally built, but by removing any/all armour, substituting a bigger engine and adding a shallow hopper underneath, (a la Tigercat & Avenger) you'd have a very reliable flying fire engine.

Flying Ambulance for the fledgling UN (combined) Air Arm (all white finish, dayglo orange wing markings and huge UN titles.

Love the idea of a cheap costal patrol/customs machine for 'Small Air Forces' - Mexican, Icelandic, Siamese (or was it called Thailand by 1946 ?).

Another idea that is only limited by the imagination, eh ?  And let's face it the Monogram kit is still really nice, cheap and easily available.

Ian

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Another idea that is only limited by the imagination, eh ?  And let's face it the Monogram kit is still really nice, cheap and easily available.

Building on Jon's contribution to the discussion with the general arrangement drawing of the Douglas VTB proposal that lost out to the Grumman TBM/TBF and the Vougth TBU, I added some additional features to the drawing to make it a bit more interesting.  

Removed the cowling mounted guns because they are complicated and increased the wing mounted battery to six weapons that could be .50" machine guns or reduce it to four 20mm cannons.  Anyway, it is an idea and it needed to be shared.  

[sequoiaranger]

It does seem that the Devastator was underpowered.

My dad, aboard the Enterprise during 1942, said that a torpedo-laden Devastator could BARELY get off the deck (usually drooping down near the water after leaving the flight deck) when given the whole flight deck to take off (The Devastators were always spotted as far aft as possible for strikes). It would seem that a few hundred horsepower more would be a boon and the USN had uprated engines that could have at least improved performance (why didn't they?). I can only suppose that the Avenger was on its way to the Fleet, and the USN didn't want to take the time and effort to convert to a more powerful engine, so just used what they had in the meantime. 

I had a 1/72 whif in mind (that I won't do) of taking the cowling/prop off a Monogram B-26 (that delightful Snap-Tite version) and attaching it to the standard Devastator, and putting fully-retracting LG on it, too. All in all, though, even the improved Devastator just wouldn't have been as good as an Avenger.

Amazing, too, what was accomplished in a few years by Douglas with the Skyraider, eh!!??

Now, what if we had THEM at Midway!! THREE torpedoes, 300+mph speed.....Ah, now THERE is a whif!

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Not too long ago I contacted another member of the WHIF forum to purchase a resin conversion kit for the Boeing XB-38 (Allison V1710 engine cowlings) which is a bit primitive when compared to the current crop of resin conversions out there.  Having no real desire to build the XB-38 which is really sleek looking I had other plans for the parts such as using them as the starting point for a turbine power egg for a couple of other projects.  This leaves me with several of the Allison engine cowlings that could be put to other uses such as a V1710 powered TBD Devastator which could be employed by land based air forces.  I wonder what "A" number and name could have been assigned to a USAAC/USAAF or Commonwealth forces Devastator?  Figured I would share that idea with you all and let your imaginations wander. 

[sequoiaranger]

EGAD! Those pointy-nosed Devastators look wimpier than the old ones! 

A-23? You mean, like a US version of the Fairey Battle? 

[Brian da Basher]

I always thought the Devastator would look better with an inline engine. Here's something I built a couple of years ago using the Matchbox kit.

Brian da Basher